BYOND Wikipedia Article Up For Deletion

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ID:182383
 
Jul 21 2008, 11:41 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYOND

It is proposed that this article be deleted because of the following concern:

Article does not show how this software is notable (WP:Notability) and relies on primary sources (WP:V)

If you can address this concern by improving, copyediting, sourcing, renaming or merging the page, please edit this page and do so. You may remove this message if you improve the article or otherwise object to its deletion for any reason. To avoid confusion, it helps to explain why you object to the deletion, either in the edit summary or on the talk page. If this template is removed, it should not be replaced.

The article may be deleted if this message remains in place for five days.Prod, concern: Article does not show how this software is notable (WP:Notability) and relies on primary sources (WP:V) This template was added 2008-07-18 13:24; five days from then is 2008-07-23 13:24.

The article greatly needs to be updated by anyone willing to update it, and I see in no way that it should be deleted...

BYOND is notable, isn't it?!?
Jul 21 2008, 11:50 am
Hm. I can't particularly define it, but I've always seen that article as not quite up-to-par anyway. And maybe it won't be deleted and was just flagged, but even if it is remember we can always recreate it, improved. We could even create an entry about the DM language...
Jul 21 2008, 1:18 pm
In response to Kaioken
Every time I try to add to it, spambots revert the page...
Jul 21 2008, 1:43 pm
Naokohiro wrote:
BYOND is notable, isn't it?!?

Wikipedia's definition of notability is very, very strange. Some popular culture is allowed, while some is not. It seems to depend on the whims of the administrators at the time.

It's not like having an article exist hurts anything. If the wikipedia editors/admins say it isn't notable and are right, nobody will ever go to the page and it won't cost anything more than 4KB on a hard drive somewhere. I think their notability policy is pretty weird since they aren't Britannica or anything.
Jul 21 2008, 2:02 pm
In response to Jon88
Yeah, I'm not fond of the direction Wikipedia went. The vast majority of all edits are questioned as being against NPOV, being non-notable, not having credible sources (who is a more credible source on BYOND than BYOND itself?), etc.

I'm thinking we need to publish BYOND's current membership, current active membership, and typical averages of users directly on the BYOND website (instead of in the forum). That would make the egotist pricks realise that people actually do use this software.

Game Maker has an article on Wikipedia, isn't challenged as non-notable, and its article quality is roughly equal.
Jul 21 2008, 3:26 pm (Edited on Jul 21 2008, 3:34 pm)
In response to Jtgibson
Yeah, I hope someone who has the proper knowledge could expand upon the Wikipedia article, especially since it's missing a lot of information about the new releases and such. Also, it could potentially contain some useful information...

EDIT
An example of something that needs to be updated: Dream Seeker is only a command line application, this limits its functionality to text only features.
That is not the current functionality at all.
Jul 21 2008, 3:52 pm
In response to Naokohiro
Actually, it is, for the Linux version, and it says so.
Jul 21 2008, 8:51 pm
In response to Kaioken
Well anyways, the page still should be updated to some extent.
Jul 21 2008, 10:51 pm (Edited on Jul 21 2008, 11:07 pm)
I will make some revisions to the article, however I really could do with some "3rd party" material, be this articles on digitalbyond talking about BYOND 4.0's release, something talking about 3D sound, a reasonably large (by BYOND's standards) DMCGI site, etc. etc.

You get the idea.

Some overarching aims of BYOND, as well as perhaps a bit of demographic information, would most probably help the notability aspect, particularly if I can say ... spin it so BYOND aims to introduce fledgling programmers to the object-oriented programming paradigm, backed up with some age demographics.
Jul 22 2008, 6:22 am
In response to Kaioken
Kaioken wrote:
Actually, it is, for the Linux version, and it says so.

No -- the Linux version no longer has a DreamSeeker as per 4.0.
Jul 22 2008, 8:44 am
In response to Stephen001
Ah yes, again...

This article may not meet the general notability guideline or one of the following specific guidelines for inclusion on Wikipedia: Biographies, Books, Companies, Fiction, Music, Neologisms, Numbers, Web content, or several proposals for new guidelines. If you are familiar with the subject matter, please expand or rewrite the article to establish its notability. The best way to address this concern is to reference published, third-party sources about the subject. If notability cannot be established, the article is more likely to be considered for redirection, merge or ultimately deletion, per Wikipedia:Guide to deletion.
This article has been tagged since July 2008.
This article or section needs sources or references that appear in reliable, third-party publications.
Primary sources and sources affiliated with the subject of the article are generally not sufficient for a Wikipedia article. Please include more appropriate citations from reliable sources, or discuss the issue on the talk page.
This article has been tagged since July 2008.

By the way, thanks for doing this.
Jul 22 2008, 9:24 am
I've started adding references where I can find them.
Jul 22 2008, 11:00 am
In response to Android Data
Ah. You mean it doesn't have a DS for playing BYOND 3 games, either? :O
Well, at least you could still use telnet if the game supports it.
Jul 22 2008, 6:12 pm
In response to Kaioken
Kaioken wrote:
Ah. You mean it doesn't have a DS for playing BYOND 3 games, either? :O

It doesn't, and BYOND 3.5 and below (back when it still had a seeker) is unsupported.

Well, at least you could still use telnet if the game supports it.

No games support telnet.
Jul 22 2008, 8:37 pm
In response to Android Data
Chatters does, but it still is really annoying.
You can join quite a few games with WINE.
I tested it with.. that one card game (Aaiko's)
Jul 22 2008, 10:04 pm
In response to Jtgibson
Jtgibson wrote:
Game Maker has an article on Wikipedia, isn't challenged as non-notable, and its article quality is roughly equal.

Just what Game Maker article are you looking at? The Game Maker article has a whole lot more infomation than the BYOND one. The Game Maker article has history on it, what sort of features it has, what sort of uses and people who use it, info about it like system resources and more. The language it uses even has it's own article (and so does it's creator).
BYONDs article doesn't even have half of that infomation.
Jul 23 2008, 1:10 am
In response to K'ros Trikare
I seem to remember DanTom being given an award or something a while back, perhaps that could be referenced somewhere? An extension of the language section may also be a good idea since the hello world demo doesn't really go into much (read: any) depth.
Jul 23 2008, 3:08 am
In response to Flame Sage
Flame Sage wrote:
Chatters does, but it still is really annoying.

Chatters is not a game.

You can join quite a few games with WINE.

That's not telnet.
Jul 23 2008, 5:23 am
In response to Flame Sage
If anyone knows the past or could get Tom, why not add a history section of how BYOND came to be?
Jul 23 2008, 9:48 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/ index.php?title=DM_(programming_language)&redirect=no

I think its time we get an actual article with more information started. Use other language articles as a reference. I'll start working on it soon if no one else does. (I'm pretty terrible at Wikiediting)
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