Regressia

by IainPeregrine
Regressia
Relive the glory days of gaming with a new single-player RPG. Regressia is a BYOND game like no other. It is 100% complete and uses all original Graphics, Music, and Programming. This is the real experience.
ID:287816
 
Having inched ever closer to the end of the game, my immediate suggestions are as follows:

1) Scale stat gains to levels. When you're level 3, a 1 point stat gain is a huge percentage boost. When you're level 25, 1 point is a much lower % increase. not to mention that characters are still faced with 0 point stat gains. Despite this fact, grinding for a single level takes over 30 minutes once you reach level 25. If exp requirements are increasing exponentially (seems to be about 1.3^x, which is high by any standards), so should stat gains.

2) Scale monster exp fairly. Right now, there's a HUGE discrepancy between difficulty and exp reward. It's so huge that exp is meaningless. Why am I getting the same amount of exp for an easy monster as one that has a 20% chance of killing me within seconds? If monster difficulty scales exponentially (and it does), then so should the exp rewards.

3) Tone down the random encounters. Random encounters are so difficult that the boss battles are easy by comparison. I mean this in all seriousness. The spell Weak in particular is a death sentence. Once you have it cast on you, if you don't immediately kill the enemy or run away... you can't heal fast enough to counteract the health you lose. Bosses on the other hand are a cakewalk. *heal* *heal* *attack* rinse and repeat. This seems 100% backwards. When you enter battle with full health and mana and with the best gear available to you, you shouldn't have to worry about the random encounter getting lucky and two/three/four-shotting you from full health.

I have to point out again that Regressia is a single-player RPG, meaning it should be beatable.
There are two conventional ways to beat any RPG:

a) playing it smart i.e. stocking up on items, being aware of weaknesses, etc.
b) outleveling the competition

or a combination of the two. This is why I say Regressia needs some work in this department. It's unfathomable that I should be killed by random enounters when I have ~120 balms and somas on my character AND have vastly outleveled the suitable grinding areas AND heal myself any time I fall below 80% HP. I welcome a challenge, but getting killed by the luck of the draw like this is just ridiculous, especially when all progress is lost every time you die.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm more than willing to go through the monster stats and change what needs to be changed. I did try and balance the game according to feedback from play testers, but I realize that the experience of my small group of testers may differ greatly from your own because of play styles and my testers' previous experience with the project.

What would help me most would be to know at what point you feel experience gains and monster difficulty parted ways. It would also help if you'd tell me your character's level and skills - having missed a skill or two along the way could make the game almost impossible without power leveling. If it's not too much trouble, I'd also like to know what gear you have equipped.

One thing I've been considering is changing the penalty on death such that you keep some amount of experience, but lose any gold, items, or quests. I'd appreciate your feedback on this.
In response to IainPeregrine
IainPeregrine wrote:
What would help me most would be to know at what point you feel experience gains and monster difficulty parted ways. It would also help if you'd tell me your character's level and skills - having missed a skill or two along the way could make the game almost impossible without power leveling. If it's not too much trouble, I'd also like to know what gear you have equipped.

I'm currently level 27 and using a spiked hammer, the cursed shield (for def which is essential; I heal often to counteract it), heavy armor, and any of the charms based on where I am (Medal for all-purpose).

Skills: heal, light, open, fast, fire, freeze, pierce, wind

I likely missed something with the apparition, and I found her corpse, but I can't find a comb for the life of me.
I also haven't been able to kill the poltergeist yet, though I am probably close.

Monster difficulty starts to get crazy after Eastarbor.
I'm going to throw out some numbers here, using about 5-10 monsters each for averages/impressions. Crit (c) = special ability; (w) = "Weak" + strongest attack.

monster .... dmg/hit . crit .... exp
Dwarf .......... 1 ..... 1 ..... 40
Lion ........... 1 .. 20(c) .... 55
eagle .......... 1 ..... 1 ..... 50
gnoll .......... 1 ..... 3 ..... 60
monk ........... 1 .. 90(w) .... 75
rakshasa ...... 12 .. 60(w) .... 70
Panther ....... 19 .. 70(c) ... 150
claymore ....... 8 . 50%(c) ... 100

What this table tells me in that the risk never seems to match the reward. All of these monsters give the same exp within a factor of 4 (which is not a significant difference), yet the differences in difficulty are staggering. The harder monsters take MUCH more time to deal with due to healing both during and after battle.

In a typical fight with a dwarf, I may lose 2HP max and in two turns gain 40 exp. In a typical fight with a Panther, I usually get mauled a couple of times and if I'm not lucky will die within the first few seconds when I've started with near full health. If I do survive, I have to waste time healing myself and restoring MP which is itself tedious when you're required to do it every single battle.

My last level took ~7000 exp. That's almost 200 dwarves, or 47 panthers. The odds of surviving 47 panthers in a row is zero, even with restoring to full health after every battle and using Fast as the first move every round. And it's even more discouraging when I consider that, even if I do grind for another hour to gain my next level, I probably won't get more than a few HP/MP and likely no stat gains; the incentive to level is near zero when grinding for an hour is likely to get me nothing in the way of stat gains.

I left out some of the other monsters like Beastmen, Cyclops, etc., but these all fall into the same category. Everything after Eastarbor is needlessly difficult and gives crap for rewards. Even after beating the first tower, I still go back to Eastarbor to train because it's stupid to waste time/money/items trying to survive anywhere else. If every monster in the game yields the same reward despite the vast differences in difficulty, then progression gets thrown out the window.

One thing I've been considering is changing the penalty on death such that you keep some amount of experience, but lose any gold, items, or quests. I'd appreciate your feedback on this.

I'm fine with the current system of death = final as long as death isn't so frequent or random. When I mean random, if a monster usually hits me for 12HP but at random can hit me for 70, and it just happens to hit me 2X with 70s before I get a turn to heal myself, that just feels cheap. Weak is especially bad in this regard. Some spells are similarly frustrating but to a lesser extent since it is possible to counteract them (sometimes) with elemental gear.

edit: 7000 exp is an estimate based on infrequent glances at the Status page. An indication of how much exp you need to level and/or when you gained your last level would be a really nice feature.
In response to Gakumerasara
I agree with all that he mentioned. XP levels after the second town differ in pitiful rewards. Also grinding to level doesn't give much reward either...if I'm lucky I'll increase more than +5 hp and +3mp...

Why is it that sometimes I get +5 hp gains, and rarely I get +20 HP and +11 MP gains randomly? You should be increasing more stats as you level, not at a random pace...even if it isn't as significant. I hardly ever increase the other stats, so there is no wishing for buffing up, just survivability.

I am currently at level 22 trying to go through Railoah. I have a Iron Hammer (not axe, axes are pointless IMO), Terra Armor, Cold Shield, and a Necklace (whatever Aura is) and various other items. I am stocked up on healing items and whatnot.

I have a couple questions though...

1) The passage through Railoah disappeared, so I cannot go back for any items if I missed them? I don't find this appealing...

2) If I'm diseased or Poisoned, I lose HP permanently? What the hell? Now that is scary! I got diseased and went form 119 HP to 60...how is that fair?

I find what's really annoying is I cannot save the game whenever I please. After a long journey and suddenly dying, out of surprise, it makes me just want to rage quit...and I hardly die. So all that progress is lost... However, one issue I would like to address is that, when I have to go, I have to go. I know you're trying to recreate the NES features, but this is the 20th century, we are busy people and we all know this so why not include a save feature on the go?

Something I also want to bring up is that when I first started playing the game I clicked on the big "Download" image assuming it was being stored in my Byond cache or something. Apparently, when I wanted to go offline from internet (wifi doesn't exist everywhere), I downloaded the game files, and then later booted them up...finding out that my saved data isn't there! Oops! Why did I click that dumb "Download" link then? :/ So now I'm forced to have a connection to play the game? My files are still there, it just isn't with the one I downloaded Regressia files. This is probably more a Byond issue than the game itself, but you might want to give the user a warning on your HUB page.

One minor issue I want to ask is, why must the ticket to sail somewhere by ship has to disappear if I use it by accident? Why can't I get a "Cannot use here" message?

Having said all that, I will say I like your game, thus I bought the subscription to it. However, these are some flaws that keep me from being able / wanting to play it over long periods of time.
In response to Neblim
About your stat gains, this much I can answer myself.

Vitality and Intelligence are directly linked to hp/mp, thus, when you gain a point in them, your totals go up much higher than normal. You notice this effect after mixing your equipment and charms, play with the Bracelet you get in the first town, it's a prime example of it.

The Disease thing is definitely a rough spot, however, you eventually learn how to combat all negative effect spells. Disease wears off over a certain number of steps, as well.

Unfortunately I can't remember anything about Railoah, or I would advise, and I don't know what that necklace does either.
In response to Ehergiz
Ehergiz wrote:
About your stat gains, this much I can answer myself.

Vitality and Intelligence are directly linked to hp/mp, thus, when you gain a point in them, your totals go up much higher than normal. You notice this effect after mixing your equipment and charms, play with the Bracelet you get in the first town, it's a prime example of it.

I did not know this. Perhaps there should be more clear concise documentation in the game. Now that I know this, after leveling up too many times, it'll take forever for me to build my stat gains now. I have to restart the game, and that's ludicrous. I shouldn't have to restart on the grounds of lack of information. I grinded for those levels too.

The Disease thing is definitely a rough spot, however, you eventually learn how to combat all negative effect spells. Disease wears off over a certain number of steps, as well.

Unfortunately I can't remember anything about Railoah, or I would advise, and I don't know what that necklace does either.

The problem is, I never heard of such a stat penalty. Thus, there should be a clear way of informing me of it. I can't even heal with it at the Inn, and that's the only healing spot I know of, so when I tried it I am forced to believe there is no "cure" and I must restart the game. While there "might" be an NPC that informs me of this, I have not run into any of them that do tell me about it. However, I would like to bring up though that even if I knew this issue, it has lasted for too many steps. All this does is hinder your xp grinding, which the game heavily relies on.

As for the necklace, that too must be documented. Else it's worthless for all I know.
In response to Neblim
It's not at all "levelling up too many times"
You're going to gain points based on random chance to begin with. (I think, not entirely sure) I'm level 31 myself, chances are I've played further than most people, and my stats are not fantastic in any way.
(97000 experience is not a treat)

That said, I might have..250 hp? I'd have to open the game to see, but it's probably around that. You learn to work with what you're given, and I certainly was not given too much vitality.

As for the disease. Everything I know about this game I worked out on my own. This is not to say I know everything, not by a long shot. But I got diseased a few times, and managed to survive long enough for it to wear off by walking 'round.

It's not the monster's job to tell you what it's going to do to you, either. :P I suppose a random NPC could warn a player of impending diseases, but if I can learn to roll with it, anyone can. (I suck at this sort of thing, suprise is my worst enemy)

Also, I imagine you've seen the defense lowering monsters as well. That too, is counteracted by the same spell that cures poison and disease. However, certain enemies will simply recast the spells once removed, almost immediately. You get led into a game of who can cast longer, and you don't always win that fight.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is I guess save as often as you can, and if something isn't working, then try something else. I'm not playing till Iain's got the new update that fixes Omen, regardless if it's just a tiny thing or not.
In response to Ehergiz
Ehergiz wrote:
It's not at all "levelling up too many times"
You're going to gain points based on random chance to begin with. (I think, not entirely sure) I'm level 31 myself, chances are I've played further than most people, and my stats are not fantastic in any way.
(97000 experience is not a treat)

It's an RPG, you level up to get stronger, how is this not a major part of the game? That being said, I'm very use to grinding for such things, so it's not much of a hassle for me. However, having to start over for something like this is not my preference. I cannot sit and play a game for too long periods of time like you anymore, life and work sets in as priority. You have to take in account for the audience that doesn't want to play countless of hours grinding just for crap level ups.

As for the disease. Everything I know about this game I worked out on my own. This is not to say I know everything, not by a long shot. But I got diseased a few times, and managed to survive long enough for it to wear off by walking 'round.

Well I'm not you. I seriously thought my HP was permanently gone. Unlike you I played Moraff's World I/II, where losing stats permanently is common. For people who have played cruel games like this will have the same impression and probably quit/reload before figuring out walking cures it.

It's not the monster's job to tell you what it's going to do to you, either. :P I suppose a random NPC could warn a player of impending diseases, but if I can learn to roll with it, anyone can. (I suck at this sort of thing, suprise is my worst enemy)

It was a suggestion of any form of documentation. I don't know about you, but as a kid I RTFM if something like this occurs. It's a serious roadblock. At LEAST include some form of manual about "Disease" along with other stats. I see nothing wrong with including documentation, unless someone is lethargic and neglect game documentation for their audience. Some people need to read it, some people don't. I'm one of those people who do because I stopped playing after "Disease".

You can "roll" with it, but again, not everyone is you. This just sounds arrogant to think if you can do something everyone should follow. Not everyone has as much patience/free time as you either.

Also, I imagine you've seen the defense lowering monsters as well. That too, is counteracted by the same spell that cures poison and disease. However, certain enemies will simply recast the spells once removed, almost immediately. You get led into a game of who can cast longer, and you don't always win that fight.

Defense lowering monsters? I don't even know what you're talking about. Maybe, but it's been too long since I played it. However, how the hell am I suppose to know this before I quit/reload? You don't seem to get the fact that I QUIT and RELOAD AFTER the SAME fight being diseased. As for counteracting poison, you must consider the fact that the person like me always heals their poison after a fight, so I'll never stumble upon this spell effect. Documentation, documentation...it could have told about this counteractive spell's abilities as well...

You're just proving more and more documentation is needed. I played this game a lot and I still am in the dark about such features.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is I guess save as often as you can, and if something isn't working, then try something else. I'm not playing till Iain's got the new update that fixes Omen, regardless if it's just a tiny thing or not.

You really think I don't save/quit/reload after thinking I lost all that HP? Do you really think I haven't played the game that much to draw many conclusions on my own to "try something else"?

I'm not trying to sound pissy towards you, however, I am a bit agitated that you can assume all these things without any real thought.
In response to Neblim
You're quite right, I've not played a game that is as incredibly cruel as to force you to lose stats from an enemy attack. This doesn't mean you need to assume that every game is going to turn out that way, though. Especially if you lose half your hp from one spell, were those games really so bad as to screw over any chance of progress like that? (Not sarcastic, I've not played them so I am curious.)

I don't see why you keep saying you have to start over because of crappy levels. If you're going to just save close to a level and then keep re-fighting it until you get a nice gain, isn't that a bit cheap on the system? As far as I know, you honestly gain stats on a set basis, but again, I have no knowledge on how that works. Any stat augmenting I've done is charm based.

Dunno how much time you think I have per day, but it isn't much, as I hold down a job too, like most people with their own cash flow. I'm well aware it's a grinder's game, and that it takes time to do it right.

The defense lowerers..honestly, a lot of enemies do it, but I can't remember the name of the spell off hand. I think it's like.. "Break" or something. Anyway, if you see that, your best option is a quick murdering or escape, because it essentially cuts your defense to nothing. Can only be countered with the stat healing spell I mentioned, which I have also forgot the name of.

Documentation spoils a game in some respects, unless things are intentionally left out. And if they are, it's the writer's job to decide what gets left out and what gets added in, and then you might even feel slighted because the info you wanted isn't in it. Still, I agree some kinda basic manual could serve, especially if as many people reacted this way to Disease as you did.

Generally I don't quit and reload, being stubborn as hell, I'll fight to the death and figure out what can be done about it, if anything. Course, this gets you outright killed more often than not, but it helped me a few times, such as discovering Disease wears off over steps.

I didn't mean to come off high handed or anything, but really, I'm quite bad at unforgiving games, I'd probably ragequit at the ones you mentioned. So when I say that if I can do it, anyone can do it, it should be noted that I see myself at the bottom tier of this type of game.

I would expect the one reason I've done as much as I did here was because I was able to save and fight bosses over and over until I figured out what I was doing wrong, and fixed it. Everything about the ways I handled it was awkward, quite sure of that. I forced myself to abandon my normal play style just to win against certain enemies, but..well, yeah.

Again, sorry if you took something the wrong way, but I meant no offense. I don't mind chatting about the game, in fact, I love to talk about it, but I don't know anyone else who's even playing it at the moment.

EDIT: For kicks I loaded up the game, and I guess I was further along than my last screenshot indicated. Level 33, 132000 experience, in my all-purpose gear, no stat is above 19 (str), except for attack and defense. 233 hp, 206 mp. And I say this is actually decent enough, though I fully intend to grind more out sometime, because Omen was HORRIBLE. Ah, and the restoring spell is simply "Cleanse", costs 6 mp. It fixes lowered defense, poison, disease, I think it would also fix lowered speed too.
In response to Ehergiz
Ehergiz wrote:
Documentation spoils a game in some respects, unless things are intentionally left out.

Since Iain wants this to be a 'real role playing game', you could keep the best of both worlds. Have a scroll hidden out with knowledge on a side path of the story-line, or some scientist that needs your help to research on a thesis.
Or, in other words, provide in-game means to figure out this information if you desire to and want to invest some (little) effort, or just keep playing on without it.
If these are placed strategically around the time you first encounter the situation, you should be all fine, as you have the choice.
In response to Schnitzelnagler
Ideally one could just come here as well though, eh? :P

Question for Iain if he reads this anytime soon:
Would it be possible to get like..the title screen theme? I love to listen to it, but keeping up the game in the background just for that seems a bit much.
In response to Ehergiz
I'm talking about an actual "Manual", not a in-game feature. It's more convenient to be able to read it on a PDF, TXT, or something outside of the game. All professional games have a paper manual that come with a game you buy, I see no reason for the same. This helps audiences with no prior knowledge to RPG based games play. This can also consider being an optional read, like all manuals, if you don't care to read it (which most people seem to not).

As far as me leveling up all over, I didn't get the option to choose what I wanted to do with my level up boosts, it's that simple. I don't even remember what build I have, but it's something horrible and death is starting to become much more / too prominent as I get through higher levels. It's becoming too insane for me to play honestly. Especially when XP / Gold rations for each monsters seemed to be intensely unbalanced. I see getting less XP / GOLD from stronger monsters is a common theme here...
In response to Neblim
I'm afraid I still don't understand why you have to start all over. There is no "choosing" with any sort of bonus point system that I am aware of. I never got to choose what I wanted from a level, I just got to take what was given to me. I think maybe you might have misunderstood me when I said to play around with the Bracelet charm.

All I meant by that was to check your hp before and after equipping it, to see the differences that one point of vitality can bring.

Incidentally, I am fairly sure the effect of Vit and Int become more pronounced the higher level you are, because that one point isn't worth nearly as much at the beginning as it is toward the end.

And, I wholeheartedly agree about that, the experience could stand a kick in the pants late game. Gold becomes less and less of an issue, though, even taking curatives into consideration. Maybe it's because of my equipment..
I may have worded it badly, so I apologize for that, but I thought it was clear enough.
In response to Ehergiz
Ehergiz wrote:
I'm afraid I still don't understand why you have to start all over. There is no "choosing" with any sort of bonus point system that I am aware of. I never got to choose what I wanted from a level, I just got to take what was given to me. I think maybe you might have misunderstood me when I said to play around with the Bracelet charm.

I may be mistaken, but as I recall, stat gains are not randomized at levelup. That is, when I gained a level, reloaded, and regained the level again, the stat gains were exactly the same. Maybe it was just coincidence, but my impression is that if there is any randomization, it probably occurs when the character is created.

The reason he says starting over is the only option is because if you aren't aware that accessories effect your stats, and your stats effect HP/MP gains, then you've shot yourself in the foot and can never recover. You can't simply gain more levels because leveling is too tedious (especially if you're weaker than you should be). You need every stat gain you can get from the very beginning because gains are cumulative.

Now that I have this information, I too will be restarting the game. when I have time for it that is.
In response to Gakumerasara
Gaku, as far as I am aware, it doesn't matter when one gains that point of vitality or intelligence later, as long as one "gains" it.

If you haven't touched the Bracelet in a while, and you're not wearing something that raises vitality, go ahead and put it on, you might see a large hp increase depending on your level because you're gaining that one vitality point. I don't think they're cumulative, but retroactive.

That said, I found an awesome accessory but it's such a bitch to get to that there's no way one could concievably get it without being supremely lucky or a decent high level, and I still don't think it affects stats on level up.
In response to Ehergiz
Sorry to not reply to this for so long. For some reason, this post wasn't showing up as "unread" for me. I'm planning to address as many of these points as I can pretty soon now. I plan to release a major update in mid July, maybe as soon as June, as a sort of six-month re-release. Sorry to push up the deadline for certain features for anyone who I told the a fix might come sooner, but I figured it would be better to have everything updated at once, seeing as how all the changes work to balance all the others.

I'd like to get some myths out of the way now, though, so that you can enjoy the game more. First, equipping items does not change your stats long term. If you gain a level while wearing the bracelet, this doesn't permanently change your vitality. Vitality (and the other stats) are calculated based on level, and then other enchantments (spells, status effects, equipment) are added. You can play the entire game with a bracelet on and have the exact same HP as someone who just put it on at the end of the game, granted that your level and other equipment are the same.

Disease, like poison and weak, is an enchantment that a night in the inn, or a "cleanse" or "null" spell should cure. (In fact, simply ending a battle should cure weakness). If the inn isn't curing Disease, then this is something I need to change. Please let me know. Both Disease and Weak have been toned down in the update, and I'm thinking of removing poison (seeing as how there's no notification of poison's effects, and it's not used very often).

More documentation is coming. My biggest job has been the creation of html documents with this info.

Would it be possible to get like..the title screen theme? I love to listen to it, but keeping up the game in the background just for that seems a bit much.

I've actually sent several people all the music files all zipped up. I had no clue the music would be this popular, especially considering it was the first music I'd ever composed, and by the time I was done I absolutely hated it all >:| That being said, the title screen wasn't composed by me... If you want the .zip, just send me an email requesting it (iainperegrine at gmail). Without the email, I'm sure that I'll forget to get it out to you. I have sooo much BYOND stuff on my plate right now.

Edit: I forgot to mention that stat gains are not random at any point. Everyone will gain the same levels at the same experience totals, and everyone will get the same stat gains at those levels. If I remember correctly, you get a vitality point every ten levels, a strength point every four, an intelligence point every 2, and I forget how often you get agility.

---

One of my primary goals when making Regressia was to make a HARD game, one that lived up to the phase "Nintendo Hard" that we used back in the day. (Sadly, "Nintendo Hard" would have the complete opposite meaning these days). In doing so, I went overboard on some things. This is partially the result of the testing team I chose. Future projects will have members of the BYOND community in the testing group.

It is my opinion that monster difficulty scales nicely throughout the game (with some notable problem monsters, such as anything that uses weak), but that exp gains do not scale properly at all. I am being much more generous with this next release.

As a final note, I'm preparing a "Regressia Gaidan" as a thank you for all of you who bought the game prior to this release. If I can get it done, it will be another, very small, game using the same Regressia map, monsters, items, etc., but with a new "character" and question. We're talking really small game here. I'll probably also make it available to anyone else who wants to pay a small fee.

Please know that I am still supporting Regressia actively, and I appreciate your support and feedback. I just get wrapped up in "Get Something Done" events and that sort of thing...
In response to IainPeregrine
Oh no problem at all, GSD is a huge thing, you really have to drop everything else to make a good product on time. I'll shoot you an email right now for that music.
In response to Neblim
Thanks for all the feedback. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I hope to address many of these issues in the next release, which I plan to make in early July. Unfortunately, Some of the issues you brought up, such as being able to save anywhere, may not be feasible for a long time to come, simply because they require a fundamental change to the way the game is built.

Neblim wrote:
One minor issue I want to ask is, why must the ticket to sail somewhere by ship has to disappear if I use it by accident? Why can't I get a "Cannot use here" message?

I just tried using all the tickets, and I didn't find any of them that deleted without setting sail. Could you let me know which ticket it is that is doing this. Any other information on this bug would be helpful.

Having said all that, I will say I like your game, thus I bought the subscription to it. However, these are some flaws that keep me from being able / wanting to play it over long periods of time.

Thanks for the subscription! What I've learned from this experience is that I'm a video game masochist, and what I think is fun, other people think is torture. I hope you'll find this next release much more fun, and much less tiresome.
I went back to this thread while planning out the changes in this recent update (revision 1.11). I hope you'll find that many of the balance issues you brought up have been addressed. I tried to keep the difficulty I wanted from every encounter, while fixing the lack of fairness in many aspects of the game (stat gains, experience rewards, spell effects). Experience rewards, in particular, were completely rebalanced; it should take around 10 battles with enemies at your level in order to level up.

I appreciate your input, and will continue to do what I can to modify the game should these changes not resolve the issues you had. Thanks, and enjoy.