IconShare isn't a game. It makes BYOND look like it must be full of "games". They should at least be hidden like anime games.

A chat room is a utility in my eyes. The Saloon contains games within its chat room which allows it to function as both a game and a utility.

IconShare is popular because people upload a lot of ripped dragonball icons there. Last time I joined IconShare 99% of the icons were dragonball characters from gba, nes games and the other 1% isn't even worth mentioning.

IconShare should be removed because of the dragonball issue with FUNimation or at least moved to fangames section.

Then utilities don't deserve to be listed.

Kisioj wrote:

IconShare is popular because people upload a lot of ripped dragonball icons there. Last time I joined IconShare 99% of the icons were dragonball characters from gba, nes games and the other 1% isn't even worth mentioning.

IconShare should be removed because of the dragonball issue with FUNimation or at least moved to fangames section.

This. You could make a statement saying that uploaded content can't be moderated...but seriously, it is filled with ripped icons to the brim. 95-99% of the icons are ripped.

OrangeWeapons wrote:

So why are they bunched in as such?

Probably because a "Utilities" category would be rather unnecessary. After all, the guide says all I need to make a game is a say verb. It allows communication, a role play could be built out of it. A text based MUD isn't anything more than a text game. Just because I make a text based MUD that allows the uploading of graphics, doesn't mean I'm instantly making a utility.

DarkCampainger wrote:

Probably because there aren't enough of them to warrant their own site section. I think there's a tag for them, however.

I'm going with this as the #1 reason why we wouldn't bother segregating them. It just seems unnecessarily nitpicky to me. If people don't like the content of the game or they fail to see how it is a game, they'll simply logout and move onto the next one. Most likely without a second thought.

OrangeWeapons wrote:

IconShare isn't a game. It makes BYOND look like it must be full of "games". They should at least be hidden like anime games.

All "Icon Games" are considered utilities. So you'd have to lump Icon Ultima and the others into that as well. I don't feel IU which has had years of work put into it since it's creation in 2003 be hidden simply because of this technicality. And to be fair, Icon Share has the same rights.

OrangeWeapons wrote:

A chat room is a utility in my eyes. The Saloon contains games within its chat room which allows it to function as both a game and a utility.

The Saloon contains minigames, but I've never seen anyone use them. As far as I know, they were cool in the initial inception, but now it's pretty much just chat. Mikau could probably remove them without any real complain from the regulars.

For am example of what I'm getting at, say if The Saloon had Chess. It's only good if someone else wants to play it with me. And if 20 online active users don't want to play chess, then I'm pretty much out of luck.

Green Lime wrote:

O.o What if they used the chat system to come up with their own rp environment? I do agree with OrangeWeapons though, this IconShare should be segmented to its own proper place.

If they used the chat system to come up with their own RP environment, we're now saying that all text-based role playing games that come with convenient features are instantly utilities. Remember people in this community don't like to see favouritism. If IS goes, IU and The Saloon have just as much reason to go as well.

Corax Software wrote:

I'd have to agree with Orange Weapons. We're told to build our own net dreams yet we are limited to defining them as games. Not cool.

You're only limited if you choose to use the BYOND Hub to advertise your game. You're free to build your own website and advertise it as whatever category you wish. Doing this, you're also not forced to stick within BYOND's publishing guidelines (if they still exist, if not, pick the old BYOND Guilds (RPG, Strategy etc)).

You're free to do what you want. Just remember that on BYOND's website, you're creation effects BYONDs image. Hence, you follow BYOND rules. ;)

Kisioj wrote:

IconShare is popular because people upload a lot of ripped dragonball icons there. Last time I joined IconShare 99% of the icons were dragonball characters from gba, nes games and the other 1% isn't even worth mentioning.

How the players use the game is completely unimportant unless it starts to become a real hassle. If they started doing something that would negatively effect BYOND's image instead of just their own, then it becomes of interest to us. This doesn't fall under that category for reasons stated below.

IconShare should be removed because of the dragonball issue with FUNimation or at least moved to fangames section.

Doesn't matter. If Funimation want to take up issue with Icon Share, they can take up issue with Falacy, the creator of the game. As it's his users that are doing stuff they shouldn't be under his rule. This isn't a BYOND issue any more, it's a creator issue. The best we could do is pull the hub.

And that would only happen if Funimation contacted BYOND and Tom didn't decide to reply "Oi! What they do -inside- their apps isn't my problem. You take issue with it? Take it up with him. All pulling the page will do is hide it, not destroy it. We don't tell our users what they can and can't make with the software, only what they can advertise on our site. From the outside, the application does nothing wrong, and it's more than possible for it to have legitimate usage. Please contact the games author about this issue. We are not legally responsible."

Which, if I'm gauging american law correctly, should be perfectly acceptable. (I may be wrong, "american law" was never a subject at my school.) As far as I'm concerned it'd be like the RIAA suing Sun Microsystems/Oracle Corporation for creating Java which in turn spurred the creation of Limewire. That's how I see it, anyway.

DrFreenote wrote:

Isn't that SOPA in a nutshell? =P I agree it's silly that all their icons are DBZ rips, but it isn't infringing on the rules from what I can tell. I personally just bare with it because it doesn't seem to be much of an issue. Let bygones be bygones and the like.

This guy has the right attitude. "There's five utilities in the games section... Not that big of a deal."

When utilities are plenty and they start to actually muck up the game listings completely, then we can segregate them (as there will be enough to warrant doing so).