I can see his point, though. Deleting posts due to lack of DM tags will make the community learn and act through precedence and obvious action. A moderator slyly editing their post isn't going to help much.

The situation that triggered this debate was a rather unusual one, and I believe Stephen001 explained it pretty well. I'm not sure what kind of user guideline we could have possibly written to have avoided it, and I expect there will be many more equally-unusual situations in the future.

It's simply infeasible to cover all actions that are "inappropriate" sufficiently, and any attempt to do so would create a document so large and cumbersome that users wouldn't read it anyway.

Anyways, you're welcome to prove me wrong by trying your hand at writing-up such a document.

A.T.H.K. wrote:
Guidelines for moderators and users need to be revamped with proper instructions on what is right and wrong and mods can and can't do and if I can dispute what they have done to the post ...

I read "proper instructions on what is right and wrong" as some sort of list of specific actions. What did you have in mind?

DarkCampaigner wrote:

It's simply infeasible to cover all actions that are "inappropriate" sufficiently, and any attempt to do so would create a document so large and cumbersome that users wouldn't read it anyway.

Anyways, you're welcome to prove me wrong by trying your hand at writing-up such a document.

You don't need that document but you do need a document that describes how moderators should handle different kinds of situations. The moderators are quick to delete posts and lock threads. If they gave public warnings, everyone could see the warning, see that the thread was headed in a bad direction, and learn about what the moderators consider unacceptable. If the mods give private warnings and delete posts they don't like, there's no way for people to learn what's not acceptable. The moderators should be people who lead by example but when their actions are often invisible, they're not setting an example.

First of all it was the exact same post as my prior one in English, If I was to link back to the English version the post would of still been removed.

Second of all are you that incompetent you can't use Google translate? If you are using Google Chrome you would of noticed a bar up the top that says Translate to English..

Just because a previous mod has done so doesn't give you the right. It is not noted anywhere and you were once again pretty quick to delete it.

As it is not noted in the posting guidelines I think you should restore it as I have not violated any rules set in place.

I look forward to seeing my post restored in the next couple of hours.

Thank you.

"You've been fighting everything that deals with you, even if you're in the wrong. It's like you seek out ways to get our attention, then get upset when we take action."

I am fighting the principle that moderators have no guidelines publicly available and technically can do what they want, Just because these problems involve myself has nothing to do with it if you didn't remove posts so quickly or had a warning system we wouldn't be here and it wouldn't be about just ME, You don't seem to understand that at all.

If no rules like the above are set then technically my post should still be up and will be up in the next few hours by yourself restoring it.

There was no need to be a smart arse as you are a moderator one would of though you would be a bit more polite.

I'm not entirely sure the ability to re-arrange posts is the ultimate issue there. The idea of posts being in English is one that extends to all of the BYOND forums. If you want to provide translations of your posts tacked on to the English version of the post, then that's fine and dandy.

I do admit that we could probably stand for a revised set of guidelines, but a lot of what we've got is common sense. If you feel like you shouldn't be doing it, then don't be doing it. What bothers me more is that we can't split/join threads together. Your most recent issue would've been more easily resolved by just tacking the translated thread onto the English thread, maybe editing the English post with the translated title, and then leaving a note on the thread about it.

One issue with posts in another language is that they're difficult to moderate. Nowadays, you may be able to pass them through a free online translator, but that's assuming the poster's spelling and grammar is perfect and slang-free (unlikely, especially for the kinds of posts that might need moderation--ie flame wars). I also think "less likely to get responses" is an understatement.

In ATHK's particular situation, his post was also a duplicate of his other post (which is an even bigger problem in a forum like Classified Ads). And given how he wigged-out when someone merely tagged his post, I'm not surprised a moderator didn't take the time to edit in an English translation for him (you know: those abnormal, indecent, extra-terrestrial moderators).

Necroposts were more of an issue with the old forums, where people would inevitably bump a thread that would take up the entire front page. It's less of an issue now that they only take up 1 of ~50 slots on the page, but I have yet to see a necropost that actually continues the conversation. Most are just people trying to get a hold of the one of the posters (which probably stems from the post being displayed on the the user's page). Ultimately, it just creates clutter and confusion. I've gone and written answers to questions from people who have long since left because someone dug up a post from 2006, and that's just a waste of peoples' time. Also, not appeal to popularity here, but it's one of the most common rules on the internet (as is [main-language]-only on the primary forums).

As for the deletion of pointless comments, the only ones I see in the moderator log since the 13th (a weekend, mind you) were "sdwadaw", "Save", "lmfao", "Tetsuya sucks", and "lol" (the last couple were actually from the same person). I think you're blowing the problem out of proportion.

As for being helpful, you shouldn't see that in the moderator logs, as you yourself have pointed out. I spend a lot of my time answering questions.

Zecronious wrote:

I think Byond is a prime example of overly invasive and misguided moderation.

I do agree that there have been times where I thought: "Wow, that post should have not been deleted/edited." I personally would not edit a message unless that user used profanity or had no clue that dm tags existed. If people are being respectful, I say let the discussion stand.

I want to have freedom of speech here, the ability to say things that somebody might not like because that's how we weed out ignorance.

I believe that is a misguided belief that many people on the internet have. We do not have the freedom of speech. But if a comment is respectful, I will let it stay. But with that said, the moderators should have a discussion so that we all can get on the right track.

Come to think about it, not being able to say what we want is probably one of the reasons Byond has such a bad look.

No. It's due to the majority of us focusing on minute problems and not playing or making games.

If you don't like what I've said then get the #@!$ out of the thread or don't talk to me. Big woop, someone's feelings got hurtzy.

I feel that being respectful is important. Remember, not all forum moderation is equal: one party may allow profanity and trolling while another requires intelligent discussion. I can guarantee you, there are users on other forums who make the same complaints, be it great moderation being done or not. So it appears to be a lose-lose situation, but changes can be made.