ID:102833
 
Applies to:Dream Seeker
Status: Open

Issue hasn't been assigned a status value.
sendpage() should be able to send a page from the game itself, instead of from a specific player who requires pop-up authentication. In order for players to receive pages from a game, they should have to allow it somehow, by adding the game to their favorites or something along those lines. And for the game/server to use sendpage(), it should have to be hosted on a hub entry with a hub_password. If the pager needs a key to work, it could just use the game's owner, or maybe the host of the server, though preferably it could just use the game's name.
A few possible uses:
* Alert (offline?) players about in-game events (like tournaments)
* Alert players when their favorite server(s) come online
* Alert players friends when they earn medals
* Alerts when players upload new content
* Alert waiting players about open slots
* Alerts about new game updates
I think it'd be nice to be able to do this, but I also think this means it could still be potentially spammy, even with the measures mentioned.
That would be a nice feature, but as DivineTraveller said, it could get spammy...
If the game starts spamming you, just remove it from your favorites?
I've suggested something like this before and I still think it would be a useful addition.
Instead of you having to remove it from your favorites, why not just be able to ban it, don't want to make the game lose its reputation because it might just be one bad Admin/GM (whatever you wanna call it) going crazy with power.
Masschaos100 wrote:
don't want to make the game lose its reputation because it might just be one bad Admin/GM (whatever you wanna call it) going crazy with power.

That should cause people to avoid a game.

While this has the capacity to be abused, it would be a very helpful feature for responsible developers.
This could also be another membership bonus. Hub entries owned by members can have a check-box for allowing the game to send pages.
I can imagine how this would be useful, but not useful enough to justify the non-trivial amount of time it would to add. Can you give an example of a situation where this feature would be incredibly beneficial?
In Decadence I could alert players of a free slots opening up on a server. Depending on their in-game settings I could also alert certain match types, when a friend is playing, have in-game invites, etc.

There are many possibilities which would suit all sorts of different games. Having some sort of mass-page admin command isn't how I'd use it at all, the whole point is to have it automated and not require an actual person to be there sending pages.
Most of the uses sound good from the developer's point of view but awful from the game player's view. If the game has one spot open you'd page hundreds of people about something that only some of them care about and only one of them can benefit from. To the developer that sounds good (it'll help get the spot filled) but it's annoying to the players - every game will be sending you similar announcements. To be reasonable this feature needs a better way to target users than everyone who has the game on their list of favorites.

It sounds like most of these features would be better implemented in-game. If people want to get into the match when a spot opens, let them join the game as a spectator and alert them when a spot is open.
Alerting people about a server spot is already possible, people just have to join the waiting list, and you have to use world.game_state. I assume at least, never actually tried it.
In my case, IconShare has a "mailing" list, which alerts players when a new icon is uploaded. Currently this only works if the uploader is a member and/or if members in the list are on their friends list.
You could also use it to alert people about new versions of the game worth checking out, alert them about in-game events; basically, anything that they'd want to know about going on in the game, that would make them join the game when they aren't already in it.
And I don't see why you would think this would be a lot of work for them to implement. 99% of the systems involved already exist. Its not like I'm asking them to create the pager from nothing.
Forum_account wrote:
It sounds like most of these features would be better implemented in-game.

Now you're starting to catch my drift.

All of the features I said would be dependent on what settings the player has which are stored in a client file. I wouldn't alert everyone about a single free slot, I'd do something like Steam does where once they try to connect and it's full they have the option of being alerted to a free spot.

Who has the game favorited or watched doesn't really have anything to do with it. Honestly, those features are quite sloppy and I'm positive I could do better in-game with a simple paging bot.
SuperAntx wrote:
I wouldn't alert everyone about a single free slot, I'd do something like Steam does where once they try to connect and it's full they have the option of being alerted to a free spot.

How do you figure that working?
Say you log into a server with 8/8 players. Normally you'd be automatically kicked, but instead your key could be added to a server_was_full list. Depending on your in-game settings you could have sendpage() enabled or disabled. If it's enabled, as soon as a slot opens on that server you just tried to join you'd be sent a page.
SuperAntx wrote:
All of the features I said would be dependent on what settings the player has which are stored in a client file. I wouldn't alert everyone about a single free slot, I'd do something like Steam does where once they try to connect and it's full they have the option of being alerted to a free spot.
Say you log into a server with 8/8 players. Normally you'd be automatically kicked, but instead your key could be added to a server_was_full list. Depending on your in-game settings you could have sendpage() enabled or disabled. If it's enabled, as soon as a slot opens on that server you just tried to join you'd be sent a page.

It's not clear to me, are you proposing to use this new feature to send these pages? Or to manage it some other way?

If you're proposing to use the new feature (have the server itself send the pages) then BYOND needs to keep track of who you're able to page. Just because you use it responsibly (only page people who had recently left the game) that doesn't mean that everyone will.

What you're suggesting is really just a game-assisted way of saying "hey, so-and-so just left because the game was full, but now there's an opening so I'll ask if he wants to join." This is a handy feature but it sounds completely doable without any new features, you'd just need the host or a player who is in charge of the game to approve the sending of the pages.

Falacy wrote:
And I don't see why you would think this would be a lot of work for them to implement. 99% of the systems involved already exist. Its not like I'm asking them to create the pager from nothing.

I never said that it would be a lot of work, I said it would be a non-trivial amount of work and that it doesn't sound useful enough to justify that amount of time. If it takes one day or one week to implement, there's just not the need for it.
Forum_account wrote:
you'd just need the host or a player who is in charge of the game to approve the sending of the pages.

That's the retarded hindrance I'm trying to get around. Even if I do use that method, it limits the paging to members.

I never said that it would be a lot of work, I said it would be a non-trivial amount of work and that it doesn't sound useful enough to justify that amount of time. If it takes one day or one week to implement, there's just not the need for it.

It should take them 10 seconds to implement. Just because you have no projects that could use this doesn't mean there's no need for it. If anything that just voids your opinion - not that you know what you're talking about to begin with, go back to pretending you know about 3D/lighting.


SuperAntx wrote:
...but instead your key could be added to a server_was_full list. If it's enabled, as soon as a slot opens on that server you just tried to join you'd be sent a page.

Wouldn't this still mean you're paging numerous people that attempted to log in? About a single open slot?
Falacy wrote:
Wouldn't this still mean you're paging numerous people that attempted to log in? About a single open slot?

Nope, I could easily just go through the list sending pages one by one, giving each person 30 seconds to enter the server before moving on to the next one. I could even go so far as to temporarily reserve the slot for whatever key since they're first in line to join the server.

Forum_account wrote:
It's not clear to me, are you proposing to use this new feature to send these pages? Or to manage it some other way?

I've built Decadence which a high emphasis on self-moderation. The game handles match initiations, sorting teams, picking game types, and all that stuff. Requiring a person to physically click okay in order to send off a pager messages completely goes against my design philosophy.

What I want, and what this feature request is asking for is a method of sending pager messages without human intervention. To have the game send them out when the developer wants.

Yeah, this feature can be abused, but just about anything can. I guess the simplest way to avoid people spamming each other with it would require the person receiving the pager message to have favorited the game. Depending on how you look at it this could even be yet another Member's perk since it's using the pager.
I'm still not sure this is terribly useful. For the case you (SuperAntx) described, requiring a human to authorize the pages is annoying but not to the point were it would make the game's feature infeasible. It also seems like there are better ways to handle it (an in-game lobby for players waiting to join).

Just because you have no projects that could use this doesn't mean there's no need for it.

That's why, in my first comment, I asked: "Can you give an example of a situation where this feature would be incredibly beneficial?" I know that I don't have a good use for this but I was expecting that you might. From the sound of it, you don't.

This sounds like a feature that you'll ask for because it might be handy, but then never use effectively. If you want the staff to consider a feature request you should offer more than just the idea, you should make a good case for why the feature should be added. Saying "wouldn't this be neat?" isn't sufficient - explain why it's worth the staff's time using a good example. It doesn't look like the staff has paid much attention to this particular feature request and I'm not at all surprised by that.
SuperAntx wrote:
Nope, I could easily just go through the list sending pages one by one, giving each person 30 seconds to enter the server before moving on to the next one. I could even go so far as to temporarily reserve the slot for whatever key since they're first in line to join the server.

That sounds like it would work horribly, and would more likely empty out servers than quickly fill slots as intended.

Forum_account wrote:
This sounds like a feature that you'll ask for because it might be handy, but then never use effectively. If you want the staff to consider a feature request you should offer more than just the idea, you should make a good case for why the feature should be added.

We have given multiple scenarios where it would be useful, given explanations of why the current implementation sucks, offered several ideas on how to implement the new systems, and aren't even asking for that big of a change. If you can't comprehend any of that, then it sounds like a personal problem. What do you want us to do? Write the entire system for them? Them distributing the BYOND project files is an another subject entirely.

It doesn't look like the staff has paid much attention to this particular feature request and I'm not at all surprised by that.

The staff ignore 99% of feature requests, and even the ones they do acknowledge never get implemented... Why do we even waste our time here o.O

Your worthless trolling is getting rather annoying at this point. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then just shut the hell up. You haven't contributed a single thing to this topic, and have trolled multiple other places as well. Pretty much everything you've posted here has boiled down to "What you're saying is bad, but I don't have any reasons why, so you explain for me"

EDIT: Also, as far as spam goes, this wouldn't provide much of an advantage. You can currently make an infinite loop that sends out pages and just hold down the Enter key to trigger them all.
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