ID:107355
 
Resolved
Live unpublished games can be searched via the pager.
Applies to:Website
Status: Resolved

This issue has been resolved.
I, along with many others, believe what with the new tagging system and all that an "unpublished" section consisting of the games that don't make it past the slush pile, would be a nice addition.
No. The games that don't make it are rips, or are unplayable, there's no good reason to display them.
Long ago the site had an unpublished section, but since the staff never actually published games, the unpublished section was where people would attempt browsing. Wouldn't want it to fall back into that mess.
So what you're saying to me is that games that are still in development and thus not going to be tagged aren't worth advertising in the slightest bit, even if it is in a rejects list? Believe it or not, a lot of people did use the Unpublished section because it actually had good games in it amongst all of the crap. There's no reason not to allow a similar thing to happen again when it's obviously not going to be as well emphasized as the listed/featured games.
Audeuro wrote:
So what you're saying to me is that games that are still in development and thus not going to be tagged aren't worth advertising in the slightest bit, even if it is in a rejects list?
If the game is at a point of development where its actually playable, then you should be able to get it listed. If it isn't, then no, there's no point in advertising a game that can't be played.

Believe it or not, a lot of people did use the Unpublished section because it actually had good games in it amongst all of the crap.
It had vast majority of the games in it, because it took the staff months to review/publish games, so yes. That's still not a state the site should fall back into, mixing the crap with the games worth playing. Or even advertising the crap at all...

There's no reason not to allow a similar thing to happen again when it's obviously not going to be as well emphasized as the listed/featured games.
Yes, there is a reason, its the same reason this change was made in the first place. So people don't look at the hub and see 30,000 copies of the same game.
If the game is at a point of development where its actually playable, then you should be able to get it listed. If it isn't, then no, there's no point in advertising a game that can't be played.

The thing is that games can be playable but still incomplete, and these games will get passed by and rejected until they are complete. There's no reason you should throw out and ignore these games just because they aren't perfectly complete.

It had vast majority of the games in it, because it took the staff months to review/publish games, so yes. That's still not a state the site should fall back into, mixing the crap with the games worth playing. Or even advertising the crap at all...

And people enjoyed it because of it. Now, games get reviewed and published pretty quick, but as I stated previously, not every game will get through but are still playable.

Yes, there is a reason, its the same reason this change was made in the first place. So people don't look at the hub and see 30,000 copies of the same game.

I don't think you read what I said at all. These games aren't publicized anywhere near as well as featured or listed games, I just want them to be accessible by the public. The games are still there, they're just hidden. If someone wants to wade through all of the crap games in the pile of rejects then we shouldn't stop them.
Audeuro wrote:
The thing is that games can be playable but still incomplete, and these games will get passed by and rejected until they are complete.
Several of my games are incomplete, some of them will probably stay that way forever, they still got listed. How much of the game is actually playable?

These games aren't publicized anywhere near as well as featured or listed games, I just want them to be accessible by the public. The games are still there, they're just hidden.
They must be publicized somehow, otherwise people wouldn't be able to find them at all. How would they be hidden?
If they're going to do this, then it should only list games which were rejected for reasons other than being a rip.
The definition of "incomplete" as used in relation to the slush pile is an incomplete hub entry at this point in time. Perfectly playable games get marked as "incomplete"

Well, you can throw an "Unpublished" in as a "Sort By" option or obscure it in the headbar somewhere. I'm sure there's other places. The point is that anywhere you put it, it's not as well advertised or as much of a problem as the games being right on the front page. Most people know the difference between "Sort by Date" and "Sort by Unpublished".

To further prove my point, I'm going to list some games that have not been listed but would other-wise appeal to people to try out:

"TradeWinds"
"Blow Up the Frost Elf Kingdom"
"The Duel"
"DoorGame"
"A Forged War"
"The War"
"SpaceRace"
"BombRun"
"Midnight Murder"

The list goes on. I didn't personally try out these games, but most of them were rejected simply because they weren't polished up enough, and a few of them for being source releases. Why should we stop them from being browsed through just because they're not polished up enough?
Audeuro wrote:
Most people know the difference between "Sort by Date" and "Sort by Unpublished".
The problem isn't them understanding the difference. Its them clicking unpublished, and being spammed with 30,000 clone hubs.

Why should we stop them from being browsed through just because they're not polished up enough?
We shouldn't, considering there are no games on BYOND that I would consider polished. Can you link to some of those games you listed?
I think you're missing the point I'm making, but alright.

Trade Winds (source)
Blow Up the Frost Elf Kingdom (source)
The Duel
A Forged War
SpaceRace (source)
BombRun (source)

As I said before, I didn't try out all of these games personally, nor do I care to, but that doesn't stop the potential. There's currently 23 pages of games marked as "Incomplete", which includes very few anime-themed games, in the system, and this is < 1 page of them.

And as for being spammed, that's why a basic filter can be included (and is for the private view) to filter them.
Audeuro wrote:
I think you're missing the point I'm making, but alright.
Probably, whats your point?
As for the games, I can see why the ones that are sources aren't listed, especially if they're listed as games and not demos. Trade Winds and SpaceRace do seem incomplete. And the other 2 seem like very simple games.
The Duel and A Forged War seem like decent games. Though they appear to be multiplayer only, and somewhat complicated to get started. Maybe whoever rejected them couldn't figure it out?


And as for being spammed, that's why a basic filter can be included (and is for the private view) to filter them.
On top of the issue of spam ruining the hub, if you keep showing people rips, and allowing them to post new rips, then they're going to keep making rips. Prevent it for a month and the entire trend will probably die off.
My point is that there's 23 pages of games that contain very few of the undesirables that have potential gems in them. Incomplete games deserve publicity too, as I said. The more people you can get to look at your game, the more potential feedback you can get, right? Or am I mis-understanding how the world works? I can't really comment as to specific reasons as to why they got rejected, I can only state what the given reason was.

And if they're in the 'unpublished' section, then what have they accomplished? They got their game stashed away in a section ("Unpublished") that doesn't in any way give illusion to any sort of official sanction by BYOND of any sort, and it doesn't show up in any of the main listings. On the other hand, you allow the people that want to play games that might not be incomplete to do so if they choose to.
I have little problem with "incomplete" games being listed. However, listing every game/rip with the click of a button will revert back to what the hub was before - a worthless list of garbage that was impossible to browse.
And unless your game is hosted 24/7 you probably won't be getting many players or feedback anyway. If its just host/source files sitting there then it will probably be ignored. And if your game is in good enough shape to be hosted 24/7 then it probably wouldn't be rejected.
You're confusing forced ease of access and non-forced ease of access. Before, you were forced to view the every game/rip. Now, you're not. That's the beauty of a separate list that doesn't mix with the front page and has filters on it. You don't have to view what you don't want to view. As it is, rips are getting tagged with 'Rip' as they're noticed and other games are being tagged as 'Incomplete'. There is a very distinct difference, but you wouldn't have known that, so I digress. If you've clicked the tiny button that says 'Unpublished,' then generally you're prepared to view a list of games that weren't up to par. You don't make conscious decisions involving clearly marked buttons without having a hint of the consequences.

Players can still download the game if it's not hosted 24/7, and some even will. Some people actually like single-player games. And some people also don't mind hosting development versions 24/7. I know I personally don't. Either way, it's not really for you, me, Tom, Lummox, Teka, Stephen, or anyone else I might've missed, to decide whether these games are actually worth looking at for the community or not.

What you'd be doing is adding one button to link to the list of games that's already there, so it wouldn't be a huge jump to add this, to allow people the convenience of browsing this list if they wish to. It's not a mislabeled button, and it's not like these games are blending in with the front page games, they're simply being allowed to be seen by others at a lower emphasis than listed or featured games.
I am against this. Especially since you/it seem to be in support of rips. The hub/website is probably the best its been in 10 years, bringing back the very things that made it fail isn't a good idea
...Are you even listening to anything I've been saying? FILTER. AVAILABLE. I've said it AT LEAST twice. All games are assigned statuses, and rips are assigned as 'rips'. You can filter these out quite easily. That's the second time I've said that. You've yet to prove any way that it would be a horrible idea other than that it gives the opportunity for people to see the good AND the bad, even though the bad can be filtered out, so that's not a valid argument either. Either way, you seem to be too dense, and I say that in the nicest way possible, to read the facts that have been presented to you, so I'm going to stop arguing and go to bed so I can make it to class in five hours.
Maybe what we should have isn't an unpublished section, but rather an "in Development" section, or something of the sort. This way, there's a place we can go to check out up and coming titles, while still having its listings moderated to the point where it wont be a pile of rips.
That's essentially what this list is once you use the filter that is there.
I wouldn't mind allowing a filter for incomplete games (which are largely in development or have some major playability issue) while continuing to hide rejected games (which are mainly rips).

Our current direction is to allow public access to what we call the "slush pile" of submissions both to allow searching of this list and to understand the kinds of things that get filtered (as well as the reasons). We will try to be completely transparent about this process so that the administrators have full accountability and can correct any mistakes. I'm leaning towards hiding rejected/rips even in this mode (although it'd be easiest to show all), as the idea behind that label is to mark those games as candidates for hub suppression.
Ter13 resolved issue with message:
Live unpublished games can be searched via the pager. Game listing isn't as restrictive anymore.