Falacy wrote:
Alien swarm is somewhat similar, though technically 3D, and not PvP. And it actually allows you to shoot where you're aiming.

See: 1.4 Patch Notes

As for the rest of your snarky comments, if I wanted to produce the kind of garbage you make I could easily shit out a few icons and slap together some horribly redundant systems then bitch to Lummox when it doesn't work; but I go for quality.
SuperAntx wrote:
As for the rest of your snarky comments, if I wanted to produce the kind of garbage you make I could easily shit out a few icons and slap together some horribly redundant systems then bitch to Lummox when it doesn't work; but I go for quality.

My projects are pretty high quality, especially by BYOND's standards. The redundant systems are there because that's what the players around here want, punching logs is apparently fun times. When I complain to Lummox about something not working, its usually because something isn't working, and he usually fixes it. You've had your fair share of complaints too. Feel free to actually try something of mine before you go calling it garbage. I'll also throw in your face that my game(s) get hundreds of times more players than yours, since you want to get all trolly =P
EDIT: I was going to test the supposedly new shooting mechanics in your game, but I couldn't even get in and mess around because it was waiting for players.
I think the mud slinging is unfortunate, yes.

This isn't so much competition with existing Flash games as establishing a new type of Flash game. Yes, they exist already, but they are in the minority. And IMO that is primarily because it is technically more difficult to make and maintain a multi-player game than a single-player one. Hopefully, with BYOND, hobby developers can see that needn't be the case.
You're really not in any position to be speaking down to other original game developers here. The only people you have beat on BYOND are other Anime "developers", and that's about as meaningful as being the skinniest kid at fat camp.


Falacy wrote:
I'll also throw in your face that my game(s) get hundreds of times more players than yours

Popularity does not equal quality. However, if that's the measuring stick that you'd like to use, it's worth noting that that no one ever really plays your original games. If you want to have a pissing contest with people who make original games, your Anime stuff doesn't even enter the equation; you didn't earn those players.


Falacy wrote:
My projects are pretty high quality, especially by BYOND's standards.

From what I've seen, your games are "pretty high quality" only by BYOND's standards. Flash BYOND doesn't stand to benefit you very much because your games aren't anywhere near as polished or playable as the average Flash game. Seems to me like you're projecting.
SilkWizard wrote:
You're really not in any position to be speaking down to other original game developers here. The only people you have beat on BYOND are other Anime "developers", and that's about as meaningful as being the skinniest kid at fat camp.
Just because the base content is original doesn't mean the game is better, in any way shape or form. Though, that seems to be your crusade. And you're now talking down to me for that very reason. Not to mention, you have a fan game yourself, so I'm not sure why you act all high and mighty about the subject. At least with anime games we have to translate the content into gameplay, you just took a game and ported it to another engine. There are very few, if any other games around here that are better than mine, fan game or not.

Popularity does not equal quality. However, if that's the measuring stick that you'd like to use, it's worth noting that that no one ever really plays your original games.
The only original games that get any noteworthy players are these two, and they basically boil down to RP chat rooms. My original games' player counts do just fine by community standards.

If you want to have a pissing contest with people who make original games, your Anime stuff doesn't even enter the equation; you didn't earn those players.
Anime doesn't equal automatic players. My bleach game is an epic failure when it comes to player counts. Around here, you get players by providing a mindless lack of spammable content, regardless of what it may be based on. See those two original games I linked.

From what I've seen, your games are "pretty high quality" only by BYOND's standards. Flash BYOND doesn't stand to benefit you very much because your games aren't anywhere near as polished or playable as the average Flash game. Seems to me like you're projecting.
I would put BE up against any other game, even in its unfinished state. Though, as far as my own games go, I think Stick War would work best with the Flash client. I think you might be the one projecting.
The whole point of Bleach Eternity is to kill endless hordes of monsters? Sorry, not my kind of game.
C_Dawg_S wrote:
The whole point of Bleach Eternity is to kill endless hordes of monsters? Sorry, not my kind of game.

To kill endless hordes of monsters FOR QUESTS! It is an MMORPG styled game, yes. What is your kind of game?
Falacy wrote:
I'll also throw in your face that my game(s) get hundreds of times more players than yours
Falacy also wrote:
Around here, you get players by providing a mindless lack of spammable content.

Well, I think that we're all on the same page now ;)


Falacy wrote:
There are very few, if any other games around here that are better than mine, fan game or not.

I don't see any of your original games that could stand toe-to-toe with other BYOND games in roughly the same genre.

Celestial Chaos 2 vs NEStalgia?

Desert Defenders vs Decadence?

Stick War vs. Ultimatum?


I'm not trying to trash your games, but seeing you rag on a game like Decadence while simultaneously talking up your own work is just nuts.

I think it's great that you've made a lot of BYOND games, and I think that you're capable of making good stuff. You just need to take the blinders off.
SilkWizard wrote:
Celestial Chaos 2 vs NEStalgia?
CC2 is old and crappy. So is HU1 for that matter. Neither of them are up to my current standards, and they were both created before I had any formal programming skills, or even a full understanding of DM. I was working on Celestial Chaos: Neo at one point, but production of that stopped long ago.

Desert Defenders vs Decadence?
Desert Defenders is more comparable to Castle. Which I would say its greater than or equal to, not that either of them are amazing games. Though Castle is one of the few games on BYOND I've actually enjoyed. Gold Guardians is in that same genre, and I would say its better than both of them. Though it hasn't been updated since before 4.0, and it isn't exactly intuitive. I have a remake for GG underway which is far superior. My biggest problem with this type of game is balancing everything, which is something Abra gets nearly perfect in his.

Stick War vs. Ultimatum?
I don't really see how those games are comparable at all. Though, I will admit Ultimatum is better if comparing the two. Aside from the lack of AI making it mostly unplayable.
Falacy wrote:
Aside from the lack of AI making it mostly unplayable.

I don't agree with your assessment that games need to have AI in order to be playable. That said, for the purposes of getting a Flash game published and played on a major site, games like Ultimatum probably would fare better with a single player AI option.

Outright dismissing BYOND games as "competition for true Flash games" is just short sighted. This retro MORPG Flash game on Kongregate has almost 2 million plays, and it's not better than anything a person could make with BYOND. Flash versions of NEStalgia and Teridal will absolutely rock sites like that.

Once BYONDers get a feel for how the Flash client works I think that we're going to see a lot of cool new games here, in addition to changes to existing games. A quality BYOND game developed with goal of embedding it on a Flash games site will be a force to be reckoned with.
SilkWizard wrote:
I don't agree with your assessment that games need to have AI in order to be playable.
Ultimatum is literally unplayable without AI... It requires 2+ players. I'd have to invite a friend to play, and I have none =(

This retro MORPG Flash game on Kongregate has almost 2 million plays, and it's not better than anything a person could make with BYOND.
Though that game isn't superbly impressive (it doesn't even have sound?), in just the first few minutes of playing it, I've already seen a ton of features that would be very complex and time consuming (if not impossible) to pull off using BYOND, while they're basically built into Flash.

Once BYONDers get a feel for how the Flash client works I think that we're going to see a lot of cool new games here, in addition to changes to existing games.
Agreed
Falacy wrote:
I'd have to invite a friend to play, and I have none =(

Constantly insulting peoples hard work at the same time talking up your own to be better (especially when they're in completely different genres) will probably do that to a person.
Tiberath wrote:
Constantly insulting peoples hard work at the same time talking up your own to be better will probably do that to a person.

What!? Since when doesn't spreading propaganda make friends!? >=(
I absolutely agree about many games being unplayable without AI. Bots would help to fill spots in a multiplayer game. The flash client is just a client, so if you wanted to run a game locally and play against bots you'd need to download the BYOND software.

I think the key differences between kongregate and BYOND are:

1. Kongregate's community is much bigger.

2. BYOND's developers tend to get caught up in the multiplayer aspect of games.

Because of its size, kongregate is bound to have more good developers. But that's not the only difference. Most games on kongregate are fun, simple games that you play for an hour and never think about again, but that's exactly what they were trying to make.

BYOND developers think that the novelty of multiplayer gaming makes up for crappy gameplay. While BYOND is certainly lacking in the glitz department, there isn't a technical reason why BYOND can't compete with other hobby game development platforms. People just need to focus on making fun games.

Edit: I don't have high hopes that the flash client will revolutionize multiplayer browser-based gaming, but at the very least the flash client will only bring more people to BYOND. Whether they're players or developers, having more people is a good thing.
The game you linked is pretty bad.

It just seems like another shitty indie game based entirely off of a single gimmick.
Well, basically I want to know how exactly will new players log into BYOND flash games? I mean, do they need to make an account, or will they just log in as guest? Will BYOND make some kind of system that when new players who don't have BYOND log in they can create an account without having to go to the website. This is what is really going to determine how well this new flash system will work in my opinion. To me flash games should be simple click here to play and your done. IF I have to be redirected to different screens and sent to other sites and forced to download random things just to play a game, I would likely just go find an easier game to play, or another game similar to the one I was about to play from BYOND. Now obviously not everyone thinks like me so for like maybe 40% of people that wont be a problem. But that other 60% who are bored and don't want to go through a whole bunch of crap to play a game(or only have a limited amount of time to play) are the issue. I mean I have played some really stupid basic flash games. Like the game where you push the button until it gets pissed off and starts trying to trick you. XD I think BYOND games have a lot more to offer than that and so even basic ones on Flash would do well or at least better than just what they get on BYOND as long as people can access them easily.
Forum_account wrote:
2. BYOND's developers tend to get caught up in the multiplayer aspect of games.

Multiplayer is the most important aspect of BYOND games. Heck, it's really the only reason to use BYOND in the first place.

I don't think that BYOND is going to revolutionize multiplayer Flash games either, but it certainly has the potential to compete on sites like Kongregate.
Moussiffer wrote:
Well, basically I want to know how exactly will new players log into BYOND flash games?

Most likely, there will be some connection through the pager, like there is now. Though, for best results in all cases, in-game account creation processes should be created by the developer.
Falacy wrote:
Moussiffer wrote:
Well, basically I want to know how exactly will new players log into BYOND flash games?

Most likely, there will be some connection through the pager, like there is now. Though, for best results in all cases, in-game account creation processes should be created by the developer.

I don't think the Flash security model will allow a game to communicate with an external program on the user's machine. More likely, there will just be an embedded login box, like Mochi Games uses and other sites. Hopefully it'll be able to be disabled, so that the dev can force Flash players to login as guest and avoid some of the confusion.

I would agree that games should set up their own account system (or hybrid, allowing both BYOND keys and game-specific keys) for the Flash client.
I will do a general Flash Q&A once we get back into the swing of things there. The system will work much like DS does currently, where you can login as either a Guest (no account) or your key. All logins will be processed through our site and the pager will also work from the web (in fact, the standalone pager will just be an embedded browser-in-app in the future).

Outside of Flash itself, no downloads will be required and we'll try to minimize the visit site -> play game clickthroughs.
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