Source Collection, Is It Ripping?

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ID:119105
 
Sep 26 2011, 6:57 am
Keywords: article
Source Collection, Is It Ripping?

Here at BYOND we’re not really fond of rips. That is to say, we –shouldn’t- be fond of rips yet half the community seems to love them and defend them like they would for their Call of Duty games and 2 liter bottles of Mountain Dew. As we should know ripping can be generally defined as using a source, programming, or pixel art that is not open for public usage. Some users give the definition some more depth, others make it even more vague than that (“You no make? YOU RIP!”), but what was stated above was my general idea of ripping. If it isn’t something that is put up to be for free usage, it was ripped. Now, some can say “Well my friend let me use their source, so technically it was given to me!” sure kiddo, but let’s figure that your friend probably got that source from another friend who got that from a friend, all the way up until they hit the download link on some website with sources. But that is for my own personal blog to rant about, not here!

But what if you’re not necessarily using the sources? Is being a collector, being a ripper? Let’s say that you happen to make games that use pixel art and programming that are ‘handmade’, yet at the same time you like to keep about 20 sources of various games, just to have. Does it make you a ripper, or just a collector? Personally I figure since you’re not using any of it, it would be fine to say you’re just a collector. And we’ll disregard how you obtained the sources.

Which is an interesting point; does how you obtain the source change who you are? If you just google “DBZ BYOND Source” and download it, is it innocent collecting? What if instead I decided to enter your game under the guise of some programmer and worked my way up to where I was given a copy of the source, and after I obtain the source I just “drop off the face of the earth” only with the sole purpose of collecting and obtaining sources (personal experience with this one, kinda). If we look at that last example, you pretty much gained someone’s trust and then once you have the source, you just up and bolt. In this example, you’re not going out and making a hub, you’re just storing it just to say “Oh, I have the source for that”. Maybe the source type matters?

If the source is out for public usage, no one cares if you collect it right? We’ll assume yes, no one cares. What if the source isn’t supposed to be leaked? For some reason let’s say NEStalgia gets its source leaked (maybe Jared somehow gets the source, and him and Silk have some large argument and split, but Jared wants to be a dick and give it out). The source wasn’t intended to be leaked, it was obtained in ‘illegal’ ways, but you’re just keeping it in your system to have it. Would someone be claimed to be a ripper, or just a collector?

Let’s take it one minor step forward. You adore your collection, and you decide to start working on a game. One game you play regularly, you love, and you love a certain system the game has and you have no idea how to remake it. You remember you have the source in your collection, so all you do is take that little bit of code, and change it around. I’d like to assume at this point, you’re a ripper not a collector.

Is source collecting even ethical? Do you see it as morally incorrect? Do you think that even collectors should be branded as rippers?

Sep 26 2011, 6:59 am (Edited on Sep 26 2011, 7:08 am)
A few minutes ago the idea for this seemed okay... now this seems more fit for my personal blog. Anyway, the idea for this came to me when I saw this site:

[insert one of Ripper Man's Sites]

Now, the user is Ripper Man5, and they have a RSC extractor at the bottom... so I would like to assume they're doing more than collecting.
Sep 26 2011, 7:04 am
u dont du et!
Sep 26 2011, 7:06 am
This may sound like i'm a hypocrite as i used to rip but, i believe even collectors should be classed as ripping. Many people i know who collect have a game, When you join that game you can see codes from all over the place because as we all most likly know collectors will call themselves professional programmers. Then dissect a source and give it to the said job.But on the other hand i find collectors sometimes harmless all they want is a collection although most collectors trade sources which then goes into the source getting leaked.
Sep 26 2011, 7:14 am
I think it is still probably bad to collect sources for games, but if they are available thyen why not, it could be in worse hands than your own if you don't plan on using the source entirely.

I could probably be considered a source collector, I have a lot around and have even traded before. I haven't ever used a source and put it forward as a new game 'made' by myself though, and only use sources when I want to study some of the coding used in systems I like (this is pretty rare seeing as though good games don't release a source).

I think collecting a source that is fairly easily available through hosted sites and whatever is pretty fine (all things considered), but infiltrating somebody's trust and planning to steal a source is NOT fine. There is just a line between a ripper and a collector.

Interesting post.
Sep 26 2011, 7:18 am
How I feel about the topic is that collecting sources is some what of a ripper, because personally it wasnt their's to begin with. But some may collect them for icons, codes, maps etc, and leave the others out. Also some may collect the source to sale or trade, to others on byond who can not get hold of the source they desire. Sale it for money worth wise, or trade a source for a source of equal to or lesser vaule, to the person that has the main source needed to the person that needs it.
Sep 26 2011, 8:25 am
I have a decent collector of sources myself. I don't use them though. I just have them because they are nice to have. But making rips is a completely different thing. And by the way, RSC extractor doesn't work any more.
Sep 26 2011, 8:39 am
It's bad either way. Eventually, you are going to use the sources for something. Whether if it's to make a game or learn from it. Unless you're some bum and you let it sit on your computer. Being a collecter usually means you are untrustworthy. And it's probably a stupid thing to do if you don't have a reasosn to do it.

Ripping is stealing, and stealing is bad. The problem is, many "developers" are children or young teens with hormones and huge ego's. They don't care what we think or what's smart or how to make BYOND better. They just want a fun game to play with their friends.
Sep 26 2011, 9:04 am
The only reason I like to keep sources is because sometimes they will have a good system or two in there that I do not know exactly how to form. generally I'd just look, see how they did it, go "Ohhhh", exit out, and start coding my own. But I never just copy and paste from another source unless it's my own. (I try to make most of the systems in my game that can be thought of as "additional", swappable.)

But yesh, ripping ish bad. Even though that's how I learned to code (ohhhh Zeta...), now I've been guided by other programmers on how to work my own stuff and not be limited to just what I learned through sources. Currently I'm turning my stone age ripped NFV, into an original game. I've recoded the entire thing except for the jutsus... (oh.. boy... >.>)

Oh, here's something good for us to argue about, is spriting ripping?
Sep 26 2011, 9:09 am
Depends on who owns the sprites and the quality. Taking some random grass turf that looks like barf and no one claims should be alright. But stealing something from an Nintendo-Owned ROM to make convert into a BYOND game AND make a profit? That's illegal. I think.
Sep 26 2011, 9:13 am
Masterdarwin88 wrote:
Depends on who owns the sprites and the quality. Taking some random grass turf that looks like barf and no one claims should be alright. But stealing something from an Nintendo-Owned ROM to make convert into a BYOND game AND make a profit? That's illegal. I think.

Coming from the side of a Naruto side scroller that uses those type of sprites. They are allowed but obviously if you try to make profit as you said that's illegal.
Sep 26 2011, 10:33 am
If you're just getting sources from people who willingly give them out then it's not ripping. Even so, you shouldn't be using the sources for anything but a learning experience, just so you can see how other people code/map/icon and perhaps learn a bit on how to better your own projects.
Sep 26 2011, 11:00 am
There's obviously nothing wrong with modelling your code after someone else's. If it's a large chunk then giving the original programmer credit would be nice.
Sep 26 2011, 11:11 am
<troll>
So lets say in the DBZ ITSH DAH BEST they have a code like this:
mob/verb/Say(msg as txt) oview(src)<<"[src]: [msg]"

And I code the same thing.
ISH IT RIPPIN'?
</troll>
Sep 26 2011, 1:57 pm
Nobody should be collecting any the stolen source codes. The sooner they're lost forever, the better.
Sep 26 2011, 3:09 pm
SuperAntx wrote:
Nobody should be collecting any the stolen source codes. The sooner they're lost forever, the better.

But sometimes it's hilarious. Remember how Masterdan boasted hard about how his gaem ish original and itsh not rip, the source code is kept securely and all that jazz? I mean it's just funny that things turned out differently.
Sep 26 2011, 3:12 pm
SuperAntx wrote:
Nobody should be collecting any the stolen source codes. The sooner they're lost forever, the better.

Sep 26 2011, 3:28 pm
If it wasn't for sources, I wouldn't know how to program. I basically did what Ganing did and saw how things were done in other sources, then went back to my game and tried it myself until I got it right.

If the person is using it to learn from, it's fine. If the person is using it just to make themselves a GM and claim the game as their own, it's not.

Besides, anyone stupid enough to get their source leaked deserves to have their content abused. People need to start being more smart and responsible with their work. Take extreme caution when sending your work over the internet and only trust people you know you can trust, like Silk's relationship with Balzack. If you're sending your source to someone you just met last week over MSN, you shouldn't be surprised if it ends up leaked.
Sep 26 2011, 3:30 pm
EmpirezTeam wrote:
If it wasn't for sources, I wouldn't know how to program. I basically did what Ganing did and saw how things were done in other sources, then went back to my game and tried it myself until I got it right.

That's exactly how a lot of people seem to "learn" some fundamental misconceptions about programming and the DM language.
Sep 26 2011, 3:46 pm
SuperAntx wrote:
EmpirezTeam wrote:
If it wasn't for sources, I wouldn't know how to program. I basically did what Ganing did and saw how things were done in other sources, then went back to my game and tried it myself until I got it right.

That's exactly how a lot of people seem to "learn" some fundamental misconceptions about programming and the DM language.

Reading the walls of text in the DM guide is not for everyone. I wanted to make games, but at the same time I didn't want to read pages all day. I went straight from Zilal tutorials into an Elysium source and then various demos ( I.E. I used one of DT's demos to learn how to use the missile proc for my RTS ).
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