Dark-DVF wrote:

I have seen that BYOND's been tight on money so I had an idea to make them get more money! This current DM guide is pretty much outdated. If you guys managed to make a Youtube Video for each chapter would you get money per thousand of views? I realize it's not much money but it would put more Developers. Developers = One way for BYOND to live.

Though, that's just my thought :/

This could very well be done by moderators and users willing to help - I'm not sure who currently has access to the BYOND Youtube account, but if access could be granted to like LordAndrew, I'm sure he'd be willing to upload stuff.

I'm not sure if it's ads/views on Youtube bring in a lot of money to channels...

I have a youtube channel where I teach audio production techniques, and I get about 2 - 3 thousand views on each video, have about 3000 subscribers, and over 300,000 total views (not all of those monetized views, though). So far, I've made a total of 90 dollars in like 6 months. It's really not that much.

There is pretty much no way for BYOND to average enough views to make this worth it. Even if everyone on BYOND viewed each video they make ( which, they won't ) Tom would only make enough to afford another pack or two of ramen. Outside of our userbase, pretty much no one is searching for "how to make BYOND games", meaning people would only come across the videos by accident. Then count how many people out of those that would actually become regular viewers ( or "subscribers" as YouTube calls them ) . Most game developers out there aren't looking to make BYOND-like games as BYOND doesn't really have much to offer in comparison to the other options out there. Sure the engine is a lot easier but it takes more than convenience to get someone to have faith in this engine over everything else. So we could say, what, every 2 out of 10 people who just so happen to come across may subscribe, and their view is added to the regular 4,000-5,000 BYOND users we already had mentioned earlier.

Therefore we can conclude this is another worthless suggestion.

Then again, kids these days aren't going to read a manual of any kind. Someone could just do a series on going through each page in the DM reference.

EmpirezTeam wrote:

Ter13 wrote:

It's borderline impossible to make a living off of internet videos and ad revenue. There are a few people around here will argue with that, but those who tend to do so tend to not be very fond friends of reality.

There are several YouTubers who have admitted to quitting their job and/or lost their job and never had to get another one because their content became a success on YouTube.

Doesn't apply here. I don't see programming tutorials for a community with a limited reach like BYOND having any amount of significant reach.

And yes, a FEW is the key word here. A small handful compared to a huge number of daily vloggers.

And as for kiao, if they aren't willing to read, they are never going to get anywhere in any variety of programming. Here's no different. Sure, we might attract some illiterate developers this way, but the question is simply whether we will serve any significant benefit by catering to an already lower standard than we currently have. Doesn't seem like BYOND much benefits from the time put into these videos.

Kaiochao wrote:

I mean, I always considered BYOND's target audience to be children or teens. You know, the kind that don't become big successes, but still want to make something happen on a computer.

You're right. Not much of a point to make in this thread anymore. Its not a good idea, I think we all agree?

FIREking wrote:

Kaiochao wrote:

I mean, I always considered BYOND's target audience to be children or teens. You know, the kind that don't become big successes, but still want to make something happen on a computer.

You're right. Not much of a point to make in this thread anymore. Its not a good idea, I think we all agree?

I started when I was about 10 I believe and I learned via looking at ripped code and practicing, but not all 10 yr olds want to do that. BYOND is majorly composed of teens and pre-teens who don't know how to use the engine, and it makes it worse that nobody is willing to help them learn and they are forced to read a boring and outdated guide that doesn't help.

Even today I still have trouble reading the guide fully. (6 years of practice we are talking about here.) I've been learning Javascripting via Codeacademy and I have learned much more efficiently than the guide here.

I think if anything, we should update that guide to be more interesting like Codeacademy makes their code, because the best method of teaching is the one that involves curiosity and comedy.

I know a lot of you oldies are going to protest, but I also agree video tutorials are good. Hell, I've taught some pre-teens how to program. They backed out of it eventually, but if someone is determined enough to want to make a living off programming, BYOND is a good starting point. Better than Python that's all I will say.

Why do people think the guide is outdated?
It teaches the basic and higher level functions of the language. Sure, it doesn't have any documentation of the features added after BYOND 3.0, but there exists the reference, and various tutorials (some written by the staff, or ex-staff). The guide explains everything it needs to, that's all it needs to do.

The people I see get rejected are people who refuse to read, or for that matter, make an effort.

I see a lot of people get told that their ideas are garbage, yes, but generally, their ideas are garbage. Most ideas are. It's just a fact of life.

Thing is, BYOND is a testing ground for young programmers. Either you choose to learn (we'll gladly help), or you choose to be taught (likely what you experienced.)

If you expect to be taught, you are in the wrong place and potential career path. If you expect to learn, well, the sky is the limit.

Iobject wrote:

What is the point of teaching someone if you are going to direct them to a boring old guide that even some programmers of 6+ years can't even decipher from the hieroglyphs it was made in?

You're making stuff up. Anyone who has been programming for 6 years would easily understand the DM Guide. I read it when I was 12; everything is in simple english.

Choosing to be taught is choosing to learn, because people who get taught by others end up learning much faster, easier, and more efficient than the guide.

nonsense. People who get 'taught' by others don't learn to program, especially in this community. They learn to copy and paste the examples their 'mentor' gives them. They don't learn to construct their own things, they rely on someone else to give them what they want, rather than ask questions to lead them to designing their own program. See the Developer Help forum for a demonstration on this.