1 Great way to get money!

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Apr 23 2013, 2:56 pm
In response to Super Saiyan X
Super Saiyan X wrote:
Iobject wrote:
What is the point of teaching someone if you are going to direct them to a boring old guide that even some programmers of 6+ years can't even decipher from the hieroglyphs it was made in?
You're making stuff up. Anyone who has been programming for 6 years would easily understand the DM Guide. I read it when I was 12; everything is in simple english.
Then why do I still have issues reading said guide when I have been programming for 6 years and attempting to make an original project of my own that will include some of the latest BYOND additions?

Choosing to be taught is choosing to learn, because people who get taught by others end up learning much faster, easier, and more efficient than the guide.

nonsense. People who get 'taught' by others don't learn to program, especially in this community. They learn to copy and paste the examples their 'mentor' gives them. They don't learn to construct their own things, they rely on someone else to give them what they want, rather than ask questions to lead them to designing their own program. See the Developer Help forum for a demonstration on this.

As I said, I am teaching a pre-teen how to program and so far he has looked over code I programmed while he happened to be teamviewing me and asked me to explain what it meant so I translated it over to him and he actually understood it.

Point is, just because you are taught doesn't mean you can't learn. This is why teachers in school help out students when they are confused.
Apr 23 2013, 3:40 pm
Referencing primary, secondary, or highschool, particularly in America is not the best way to demonstrate that when teachers teach, students learn. teaching is one way to train a person. But sometimes, telling someone the answer to their question is a worse lesson than asking them another.
Apr 23 2013, 3:41 pm
In response to Ter13
Ter13 wrote:
Referencing primary, secondary, or highschool, particularly in America is not the best way to demonstrate that when teachers teach, students learn. teaching is one way to train a person. But sometimes, telling someone the answer to their question is a worse lesson than asking them another.

So then wouldn't what we have been arguing about the whole time be considered Teaching, since it's a tutorial video teaching how to properly use DM?

Tutorial =/= Giving out answers.
Apr 23 2013, 4:39 pm
In response to Iobject
Iobject wrote:
Ter13 wrote:
Referencing primary, secondary, or highschool, particularly in America is not the best way to demonstrate that when teachers teach, students learn. teaching is one way to train a person. But sometimes, telling someone the answer to their question is a worse lesson than asking them another.

So then wouldn't what we have been arguing about the whole time be considered Teaching, since it's a tutorial video teaching how to properly use DM?

Tutorial =/= Giving out answers.

What purpose do video tutorials accomplish that the equivalent text guide doesn't?
Apr 23 2013, 4:54 pm
I think video tutorials give you that feeling your in a class room... I prefer text I can go at it at my own pace it's correctly done and may not have other people's bad habits ... That being said a video tutorial could be the same If it's done correctly having a person that can speak properly and will elaborate on certain things along with knowing what they are doing...
Apr 23 2013, 5:17 pm
A YouTube series on the guide...honestly in order to get points across, it would have to be meticulously slow.

Like...in one episode, you explain the differences between x++, ++x, x+=1, and x = x+1.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I'm also not saying that the DM Guide needs to just be skipped over. If the video tutorials are done right, they could be helpful. Don't handfeed them a ton of information, give them teasers. Intrigue them. Once you have their attention and they see you have no other videos to learn from, they may start looking around and stumble upon the Guide and actually want to read it.

That's just a theoretical situation though.

In my experience with helping people with programming, the main problem is that they don't have the logical mindset that a programmer needs. They don't quite understand everything and can't read the code as if it is functioning right then - which should be very easy, since you just envision what should be happening as you read down your code, but it isn't for some.

If the videos could introduce them to that logical mindset, I think they may accomplish something.
Apr 23 2013, 7:13 pm
In response to Super Saiyan X
Super Saiyan X wrote:
nonsense. People who get 'taught' by others don't learn to program, especially in this community. They learn to copy and paste the examples their 'mentor' gives them. They don't learn to construct their own things, they rely on someone else to give them what they want, rather than ask questions to lead them to designing their own program. See the Developer Help forum for a demonstration on this.

They learn to understand, or read code. But not how to write it. Give them something new to create, and they'll be lost.
Apr 24 2013, 3:53 am
In response to FIREking
FIREking wrote:
Super Saiyan X wrote:
nonsense. People who get 'taught' by others don't learn to program, especially in this community. They learn to copy and paste the examples their 'mentor' gives them. They don't learn to construct their own things, they rely on someone else to give them what they want, rather than ask questions to lead them to designing their own program. See the Developer Help forum for a demonstration on this.

They learn to understand, or read code. But not how to write it. Give them something new to create, and they'll be lost.

Also a good way to understand and write code is to imagine it as proper English.

I usually translate what the code says to english and it helps a ton.

for(var/mob/M in world)//for every mob in the world, they become M
    if(M)//if M exists
        M.name="Mob"//M's name is now "Mob"
        return //stop the function


Stuff like this really does help in the long run and got a 12 yr old to understand what I was doing at the time of him teamviewing me.

What I think is good about videos is that it's pre-recorded, so if they back out late in the game, it won't waste anyone's time and the chances of them doing so are much more slim than if they were going to read a long, diarrhea-written guide (Rambling on mostly) that doesn't interest, rather just tells you what stuff does and that's it.


Again, this is only my opinion.
Apr 24 2013, 4:17 am
Wouldn't M already exist since its in the world ;) lol

Each to their own for videos or text I think it's up to the community to do it though I don't see Tom or Lummox JR doing it anytime soon with that large feature request list they have going on....
Apr 24 2013, 9:31 am
In response to Iobject
Part of the problem with looking at code as english is the fact that english is 90% context and 10% syntax.

English is a horrible language to demonstrate as logical.

Korean or Chinese, on the other hand, are fantastic languages to compare to a programming language, as they have so little context, and quite a lot of syntax.

Source: Linguist/Polyglot
Apr 24 2013, 1:21 pm
In response to Ter13
Ter13 wrote:
Part of the problem with looking at code as english is the fact that english is 90% context and 10% syntax.

English is a horrible language to demonstrate as logical.
And that matters how? As long as it gets everything to work properly while being correct, does it matter how I do it?
Korean or Chinese, on the other hand, are fantastic languages to compare to a programming language, as they have so little context, and quite a lot of syntax.
It doesn't matter if the result gets the code correctly written and working.
Apr 24 2013, 1:34 pm
In response to Iobject
Iobject wrote:
It doesn't matter if the result gets the code correctly written and working.

You are kidding right?
Apr 24 2013, 1:36 pm
It works, so it must be right!
Apr 24 2013, 1:42 pm
In response to Albro1
Albro1 wrote:
It works, so it must be right!

Hence I said correctly written as well.

Wow you guys totally ignored the fact I said that. Sons I am disappoint.
Apr 24 2013, 1:44 pm
Codecademy actually taught me a lot. I enjoyed it. I learned HTML & CSS via Codecademy. In fact I plan on learning more with it.
Apr 24 2013, 1:45 pm
In response to Dark-DVF
Dark-DVF wrote:
Codecademy actually taught me a lot. I enjoyed it. I learned HTML & CSS via Codecademy. In fact I plan on learning more with it.

I learned HTML and a short strand of CSS from a college course in a community college. I am learning Javascript in Codeacademy and it works way better than our guide! (Hint Hint Wink Wink Nudge Nudge Tsk Tsk)
Apr 24 2013, 2:02 pm
In response to Iobject
Ter's argument was that English isn't a good language to use...which hints at *not* correctly written.
Apr 24 2013, 2:07 pm
In response to Albro1
Albro1 wrote:
Ter's argument was that English isn't a good language to use...which hints at *not* correctly written.

It may not be a good language to use, but it doesn't mean it can't be correctly written that way.

It just means that it has a higher possibility of not being correctly written, not that it is definitely not correctly written and should not be used.

There is a difference, you realize that right?
Apr 24 2013, 2:07 pm
In response to Iobject
Honestly I finished CSS today. It was pretty much a coincidence that you have wrote about Codecademy. I will try to finish all their classes. And yet, I would like to see Dream Maker's programming language taught like they do. It is far more interesting and I learn way easier.
Apr 24 2013, 2:08 pm
In response to Dark-DVF
Dark-DVF wrote:
Honestly I finished CSS today. It was pretty much a coincidence that you have wrote about Codecademy. I will try to finish all their classes. And yet, I would like to see Dream Maker's programming language taught like they do. It is far more interesting and I learn way easier.

I heard the forums were written in DM, so they could possibly do the same for a tutorial, and if they can't I might after I get projects sorted out and finished, but the downside is that they will take years to accomplish and I haven't announced one of them yet, the other I'm thinking of dropping or holding off on it until I am less busy.
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