ID:1251821
 
Applies to:Website
Status: Open

Issue hasn't been assigned a status value.
I've been looking through the Classified Ads section, saw a hand of posts which offered this and that, some promise the best quality or such.
Yet, we that have been around BYOND for many years know, have a general idea of whom is good enough or a complete fail.
Yet those new-comers may not really recognize those by reading the post, or by talking to the guy, so I have been thinking about some sort of Developer classification.

Say a programmer wants to be recognized as it, as a proof that he is skilled enough.
As of now there is no real way to do so, unless we showcase our previous projects, which in some cases it is not possible, be it author's choice or whatever.
So now, there could be a way for developers, be it programmers, graphical artists, sound producers - to submit themselves for populace approval.
Now that we are approved, a symbolic icon couls appear by the side of our name on the forum posts, assuring we have been recognized as 'profession here'.

Not really needed, but it would make things easier for those who are looking for members, and only want a certain niche of quality.
Sounds like a potential popularity contestest. Perhaps a better way to handle it would be to change the classified forums and make it have a 'Submit Projectc, type of thing, letting designers and developers enquire about it, then after project completion, the author could rate their work.

I'm not at my computer right now, but I will elaborate when I get home.
Bump.

I still think people needs some sort of recognition, although I understand how busy the staff may be and how this matter lacks importance.
SnipeDragon is on the right track in my opinion. A rating is good, but it should probably be based off a system where the classified ad holder chooses whether to accept the person inquiring or not, and then once they've done so the ad holder can rate the workers overall performance at any point they want.

The rating of the worker would depend on the sum of all the ratings he's received from developers, not just the one, too. There shouldn't be much room for trolling or manipulating the rating since the ad holder has to make the ad, and the worker has to apply for approval. The ad holder can't forcefully take someone and rank them down or up.

It would be even easier to manage if you can't rate someone for like, 7, or 14 days after hiring them. That way people can't try to make false ads to rank up their friends, though Moderation could easily catch that too.
I think a better way to go about it is to make it mandatory to post examples of their work in their classified ad. If they dont post it, it would simply be deleted. May seem a bit harsh but that would make it easier for people to find experienced people easier. There shouldn't be any reason people don't post examples in their own ad as in the first place.
In response to Toddab503
That would be a horrible idea. Most of the best people on here don't even use classified ads. Anyone who doesn't use them would have no score displayed. Having something like that shown is all about ego and should be avoided I think.
In response to MDC
Well, to be fair, by that logic the entire post is a bad idea. I do see your point, but with your suggestion above it will just make a lot of the less experienced people miss out because they don't know or they don't take it that seriously. You could argue they shouldn't get help then, but sometimes they're just young or don't think about it.

The current method classified ads use is okay, but it has a lot of room for improvement. It could be so much more effective.
In response to Toddab503
How would the entire post be a bad idea exactly? The point of a classified ad is to offer services or look for services, not to flaunt your skills. It wouldn't make anyone miss out anything. To try and explain it a little better, all my suggestion would do is cut a step short. Rather than view a classified ad and respond to it only to find out the person didn't have the skills necessary to do what you need/want, the viewer would know that beforehand. It wouldn't make anyone miss out but make them want to improve now. Think of it like a resume. The better it is the more of a chance. I agree the current method is nice but it could have one or two additions, like the one I mentioned, to make it a lot easier for people. I could see them just adding something to the template when making a classified ad. Something like:


"Work examples(Recommended you show what you can do. It would be easier for both parties if everything is out on the table):"

Maybe being able to add images as a thumbnail to the classified ad how we were(are?) able to with posts on our pages would help as well.
There could be a group for each 'title';

Instead of relying on the staff members to handpick those members, the current members of each group could decide if it is wise or not to let someone else join said group, everything with a consensus, obviously.

In order for that to happen, you would need to submit a few snippets and/or projects, for the group to evaluate. Since we all know how stupid a big part of the community is, I don't think 51% is enough to let someone in, so I would say, at least, 70% of those votes to be positive in order to get acceped.
That would make it worse for newcomers. Any new person wouldn't be able to make posts like these and get people to look at their things. People would look at their label(which wouldn't be recommended yet since they have to wait on votes) for people to look at their stuff. Instead he showed his work and people saw that it was of quality and wanted him immediately. Something like that would make the biggest different in classified ads I think. People could do that now without any addition from the BYOND staff but most people just don't think to do that. That's why I suggested adding a snippet like what I typed in bold to the template they already have set up when you go to make a post in the classified ad forum.
In response to MDC
I meant the OP. Your post implied the rating system in general would be bad, or at least that was my impression.

Right, that snippet would be good, but you said something about mandatory before and/or deleting posts that don't do it, and that's where I meant people would miss out. Optional is fine, and good.
In response to Toddab503
Ah, I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding lol. I agree with you, deleting the posts that don't isn't something that has to be done but it's an option. I guess the best way to go about it is to add the snippet and let them want to improve their work on their own because regardless if it gets deleted or not, the only time they'll get people that want their work is when their work is that of quality. Maybe Tom or Lummox will see this post and decide to add a snippet at the end sometime. It'd be nice to have better ads, other than that though it's pretty good.
Those who are putting themselves out to work should consider making a portfolio of their previous work. It could be hosted on a website, and can easily be linked to forums such as this. With a strong, presentable portfolio, one is more apt to be hired by an employer, or has a better chance to catch freelance work.

I also think that in classified ads, proper key terms should definitely be applied. When someone says "mapper" and "coder" and "iconner," I would not take the post seriously. "Map Designer," "Programmer," and "Graphic Designer" are much more professional terms.
In response to Makeii
Makeii wrote:
Those who are putting themselves out to work should consider making a portfolio of their previous work. It could be hosted on a website, and can easily be linked to forums such as this. With a strong, presentable portfolio, one is more apt to be hired by an employer, or has a better chance to catch freelance work.

I also think that in classified ads, proper key terms should definitely be applied. When someone says "mapper" and "coder" and "iconner," I would not take the post seriously. "Map Designer," "Programmer," and "Graphic Designer" are much more professional terms.

How about Hubbers and Calculators, Makeii?
I don't think we can force users to go out of their way to make a more presentable classified ad. We have a template that very few use. I'd imagine it's either because they don't know it exists, simply don't care, or don't want to take the time to organize their ad.

If I recall correctly, we had the template within the thread when starting a new thread in the Classified Ads section before the website got updated. Although some users might end up deleting it, maybe re-adding the template would help.

I should point out that, personally, I don't see the issue. Most of the ads are vague, but you could always contact the user to see what the game is about. If their lack of professionalism is a turn off for you, then ignore it. I responded to one recently and I regret it, I should have taken my own advice.


Regarding the OP, the idea seems decent enough. The issues I see with it is that it could become an issue of social status, and that it could unintentionally put new-comers down or even push them away. While it does sound like "Hey, this guy is a professional!" right now, it could easily turn into "Oh, you have an elitist badge!".

Some people, some of which are still learning, have a lot of motivation and are willing to learn. Unless we give them this "badge of approval" for putting forth effort, some might take a blow to their confidence as a developer and just give up.

On the other hand we have some really talented users, some of which are lazy or unreliable, and thus giving them a "badge of approval" would be counter-productive; but if they don't get one, it could stir up unnecessary drama.

tl;dr
At the end of the day, the majority will end up with these "badges" and then we'll be back at square one.
I think that the current system should be sufficient, if it were used properly.

"Hiring" individuals need to present their project a little better, to draw in the proper help (no one wants to help you if all you're saying is "Going to be best game on BYOND!" and "Totally original!"; you need a "hook" in your description. You need to tell me why your idea is so awesome)

And "applying" individuals need to have a portfolio, or at least some random examples of their work. And the potential employer needs to properly expect this, and evaluate the candidate based on such.

I do think that the Classified Ads section should have a more guided post creation, something like what Bug Reports has.

I also think that BYOND could provide a more functional "profile" page for developers (Members-only?) where they can post icon examples, or even code examples.
Hell. Even blogs would be awesome to have again.
In response to Makeii
Lol let's not start that again. It has been made quite clear they won't ever return. That's probably why SuperSaiyanGokuX is presenting something new, and more developer specific.
What was the reason for their disappearing? Is it simply on account of the new forum template amd hub subforums that were implemented?
Why not post icon/code examples as a demo? They even get their own forums.

You could even make a personal hub for yourself with your own forum and donate button (subscriptions).
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