ID:136009
 
Lately I've noticed that about half of the "Chatterz" games on byond (I've never figured out the point of those games) are offering Hentai. Then today I was browsing the unpublished games, and came upon a game called "PornStarGuru, **** your way to the top" by Inutracy. I'm just curious as to how far people are allowed to go with these games which are only appropriate for people aged 18 and up? Where is the line drawn? One time somebody even changed the world name of their game to make a very lewd insult directly at me. I'd paste it, but its way too inappropriate.

Anyways, I just think its kind of a problem thats seeming to deteriorate gradually. Maybe if there were some way to screen this sort of thing? Idunno...I'm no coder. I just play the games.

That's my two cents..thanks for reading.
Personally I think the uncencored Unpublished channel should just be removed.
In response to Foomer
I agree. Though like I have said before, I think it would be ok for a reviewed alpha games channel, so games that aren't quite good enough to get in a channel and still in need of testing still can get that. All other games would just have to use the pager, their own website, and the such to publicize.
In response to Foomer
I don't see why. The Hub entries for any game that is offensive should be removed, but the blurb does say "explore at your own risk". That's not just intended to be cute, you know.

Good analogy: if you find one bad egg in the carton, do you throw out the whole dozen?
In response to Foomer
Im starting to think like that too. However I think a filter of some sort should be added to censor certiant words in all HUB entries, and world.names displayed on the HUB.
Im guessing it wouldnt work too well at first. Since you can get around filters using variations, but if the moderators kept adding new words as they arose, and punished those who worked around the filter it could work.
In response to Kunark
That's a really good idea, except that people might just make a game to get it into that channel, and then replace it with an inappropriate game. At least the names of the games on the hub page will have been checked, though.
In response to Jon88
Ya because i got flash chat into the chat channel by replacing it with my old TBChat because it was a replacment, but it could be done in a bad way too.
Should explicit adult games be allowed to run in unpublished? By explicit I mean games that show visually full nudity and hardcore (we're talking about porn rating level) acts?

Legally in the US it's a difficult issue to decide (especially since the company of Dantom is located in Orange county California, federal acts like CDA and COPA both failed (which is a good thing) to find hosts responsible for content available on (sometimes meaning even linking to) web sites, news servers, etc.)).

Morally, this should be an easy answer of no. This post should explain why easy enough. It only takes one parent with enough money to take up a personal vendetta against that byond.com site which give his little Johnny PORN!

I don't see removal of the whole unpublished games channel an answer. Why not try a TOS agreement written exactly for this issue. Users see it and have to agree the next time they log into their key on the web site. Something along the lines of not hosting or playing such games with penalty of account termination. If that doesn't work well enough make some examples and ban a few offenders.
In response to Grei
The removal of the channal isn't just the answer to the porn... It is the answer to many other things as well, including maintaining a nice look to new users, and the discouragement of rips and innapropriate games (Not just pornographic games.).
In response to Grei
BYOND.com provides just as much access to inappropriate material as google.com or any other search engine does. BYOND.com isn't hosting the material any more than google.com is, it just provides a way to get links to it, so I doubt anyone would attack BYOND over it.
In response to Foomer
Foomer wrote:
BYOND.com provides just as much access to inappropriate material as google.com or any other search engine does. BYOND.com isn't hosting the material any more than google.com is, it just provides a way to get links to it, so I doubt anyone would attack BYOND over it.

Like I said, legally Dantom is fine. It's just morally wrong with such a large portion of the community being so young.
In response to Jon88
Jon88 wrote:
people might just make a game to get it into that channel, and then replace it with an inappropriate game.

What's the point?
In response to Grei
Grei wrote:
Foomer wrote:
BYOND.com provides just as much access to inappropriate material as google.com or any other search engine does. BYOND.com isn't hosting the material any more than google.com is, it just provides a way to get links to it, so I doubt anyone would attack BYOND over it.

Like I said, legally Dantom is fine. It's just morally wrong with such a large portion of the community being so young.

May I chip in my two cents? From all the time I've been around BYOND, I'd say that about 60-80% of the people are under 18 (not a suprise, since these are video games, by the way). Again, this reminds me of the time my brother showed me exactly "why" Raekwon dis-allows profanity in his games, and the reason of young eyes benig around reers it's ugly head. I, myself, am 15. There is a rule around my house that stands to an extreme level. If I were ever caugfht going to a porn site of any kind, or one with porn within it's context, I will most likely, end up being banned from the computer until I am of legal age, which is a long long time. What draws the line, here, then? Well, I can clearly agree with the whole concept of no porn (How desperate must one be to resort to...BYOND?), and possibly less material which is completely inappropriate (Though I do enjoy playing games like The Mis-Adventures of Light Samurai from time to time, no harm in my eyes). It should be up to Dantom on how far to set whatever limits there might be in whatever future there is for BYOND. Personally, since all of this stuff is under Dantom, and if by any chance, any laws are violated (It's like handing porn to children like candy), and some parent does see it, I do see it possible to have a prent or something of that sort, try to take it towards getting BYOND shut down. So enough of my ramblings. I'm gonna go get some food, later people.
In response to Deatheaven
May I chip in my two cents? From all the time I've been around BYOND, I'd say that about 60-80% of the people are under 18 (not a suprise, since these are video games, by the way).

Actually, now that the 80s generation is reaching maturity, the numbers show that most gamers are males between the ages of 15 and 28.

Games are quickly developing into media that is typically unsuitable for minors (much like television has changed to be typically unsuitable for minors -- 50 years ago, if a TV show merely showed a naked behind, it would've been boycotted from every network imaginable). There is, of course, always a diverse market that caters to other demographics, but the facts remain that adults are the people who are playing the most games.


Again, this reminds me of the time my brother showed me exactly "why" Raekwon dis-allows profanity in his games, and the reason of young eyes benig around reers it's ugly head. I, myself, am 15.

The reason why I disallow profanity in my games has nothing to do with children -- it's a matter of personal respect. Would you say, "Well, how the &@#%@# are you !@$&(!% doing, sir?" to your boss at work? Of course not. The whole point is, you should treat everyone you interact with with the same respect as you would treat your boss -- especially if you don't know who exactly you're interacting with.

Many people who stand behind a "please think of the children" defense are fighting for a cause they don't even understand, because they can't come up with a valid reason why it is actually bad for the children. I don't butter things up -- it's not about children, it's about common decency.

If everyone involved in the game considers that swearing is fine, then more power to them -- they can swear all they want. However, if they offend even one person, then swearing goes out the door. That's why I don't bother regulating private communication in Haven, for example; what two people say to each other is their own business, and if neither of them gets offended by it, then it's perfectly fine. Public communication, on the other hand, is severely restricted and enforced.


There is a rule around my house that stands to an extreme level. If I were ever caugfht going to a porn site of any kind, or one with porn within it's context, I will most likely, end up being banned from the computer until I am of legal age, which is a long long time.

BYOND never has, doesn't, and never will condone the creation of vulgar games. However, people are free to do so. The creation of Hub entries that are vulgar, contain graphic depictions of nudity, or otherwise, do fall into Dantom's administrative umbrella, and once reported they are usually dealt with.

If the Hub entry itself is tame, however, and it provides adequate warning about the content and purpose of the game, then the only person responsible for seeing that game is the person who willingly seeks it out and accesses it. Just because a game is themed around pornography doesn't make Dantom responsible, any more than CISCO is responsible for running routers that can be used to transmit pornographic data.

If someone is DUI and kills a family of four, does the family's next of kin sue the liquor company? Or the automobile company? Surely they should have told people not to drink and drive -- but they didn't, so they should get sued, right? =)


What draws the line, here, then? Well, I can clearly agree with the whole concept of no porn (How desperate must one be to resort to...BYOND?),

The point comes once again to demographics. The average PC gamer is an adult or young adult male. However, the age brackets of anime fans are wider than that, ranging from adolescence to middle-age; because BYOND is generally a gaming community, we see overlap with the young anime fan group (which is drawn in by DBZ games, mostly) and the PC gamer group (which is, by its nature, fairly young and male).

Thus, the only reason we're seeing a bloated number of vulgar games is because we have some of the worse elements of both groups. =)


and possibly less material which is completely inappropriate (Though I do enjoy playing games like The Mis-Adventures of Light Samurai from time to time, no harm in my eyes).

It should be up to Dantom on how far to set whatever limits there might be in whatever future there is for BYOND.

Dantom has already set limits: no vulgarity is allowed in Hub entries (obviously, this includes names), and adequate warning must be created in your Hub entry if your game contains offensive content. Dantom don't personally oversee every item that gets added to the Hub -- it's necessary for people to report offensive content to them before they can take appropriate action. Reports should all be handled discreetly and privately, though, to prevent it from spilling over and creating pandemonium (like this thread). =)


Personally, since all of this stuff is under Dantom,

Yes, but Dantom is only responsible for the Hub, and this whole discussion is about sanctioning a legitimate service that is being abused by one or two people.


and if by any chance, any laws are violated

Anyone committing any laws is responsible for their own actions, unless those actions are committed in an emotional state where the perpetrator cannot be mentally considered to be the same person that committed the crime.


(It's like handing porn to children like candy),

No, it's not. If I walked out in public and shot someone on the street, would that instantly inspire every child on the street to go start shooting people?

If you see something grotesque, horrifying, or obscene by accident, it doesn't affect you in any way. Heck, even if you see it on purpose, it generally doesn't affect you much.

The real problem is the people that are pre-disposed towards that sort of thing in the first place. For example, angry Republicans with nothing better to do have linked the Columbine shootings to the fact that the kids played Doom -- what these folks have failed to mention, of course, is the fact that Doom has sold millions of copies worldwide, and we aren't seeing millions of high-school shootings worldwide. =P


and some parent does see it, I do see it possible to have a prent or something of that sort, try to take it towards getting BYOND shut down.

Of course. There's always that risk. Heck, there's a risk of getting sued for emotional distress if you make someone wait five minutes for a burger because the friers aren't hot yet. =)

The point is, they wouldn't succeed if they ever did make a case of it.
In response to Spuzzum
I don't want to dive too far into the "What porn does to children" debate, because we can go on and on forever about it. I can however safely say that I know plenty of good people here in Denmark, and you'll find pornography in the newspaper, posters on the street, TV (As early as about 8-9).

That's not the point, though. It's not the job of Dantom to police a free medium they provide, and I'd say adequate measures have been taken. If you are desperate to find pornographic material, there are plenty of ways that are MUCH easier than downloading the BYOND software suite and connecting to a game. Any one of the thousands and thousands of free sites, or heck, searching for 'xxx' or 'sex' or 'porn' on a search engine, restricting it to pictures.

Say you rent a house somewhere, and for some odd reason you choose to display something truely horrific, or some pornographic material, or whichever inside the house. Outside the house you put a huge, blinking neon sign saying "Do not enter unless you want to see something truely horrific, or some pornographic material, or whichever". Is the company which sold you the house in the wrong (Morally) if someone DOES enter, or are you? Even in this example, the company has more of a tie to the house and owner than Dantom does to the HUB
In response to Alathon
Alathon wrote:
It's not the job of Dantom to police a free medium they provide

While I agree with you for the most part I do think that they have some sort of obligation to police the medium they provide.
Im very thankful for the free service they offer us, and I hate to ask them to do more, but something should be done before it gets too bad.
Things like this have a habit of getting out of control. Doing something now could mean the differnce between the HUB turning into a Warez/Porn den and keeping it under control.
I know thats a very paranoid statement, but it could happen.


As for finding porn easily, your right, but that shouldnt be a factor. Its about BYOND vs "Adult Content" not The Internet vs "Adult Content".
In response to Foomer
That for a few days or even weeks, something will be on the channel listings that should not be. But, if they worked hard enough on something that it desirved to be on the channel listing, why would they want to change it.
In response to Kunark
But, it also discruges new people from making games because it becomes more difficult to make a game and get it known while still in the early stages.
In response to Scoobert
Thus making them push to get it out of early stages :)

It wouldn't be that hard to get it in that channel, for the reviewers would just have to do a quick check then accept/reject.
In response to Spuzzum
I disallow vulgar language in general, because as you should know, when someone gets killed in a game they tend to swear. I don't respect this, and there is a lot of young children playing my game. Because of this, I disallow it.

But, now, if they were all 15+ years olds, I don't think I would work so hard at enforcing those rules, because it's not like you've never swore before when you get killed, whether it's in your head, or written in text. I understand Spuzzum's comment about the respect matter, and how you wouldn't go up to your boss and be like: How in the ****ing **** are you doing today, dip****? But now if you're at work, and you drop something on your foot for instance, and your boss is standing there, I probably would end up saying something vulgar.


RaeKwon
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