ID:138263
 
I can't remember if you've already talked about changing this or not... I'd make the Overview page (or something like it) the first page people see when they come to a site. Quite frequently when I visit websites for programs I'm interested in, I'm first presented with a news page, and if I have to click around just to find out what the heck SuperGameMaker IS, I sometimes get frustrated and give up.

Here we have a prominent link nicely labeled "Overview," but I think it'd be even better if that were the first page loaded. It's not hassle at all for me to click a separate link to find out what's new. I always go straight to the forums when I enter the site anyway.

The links on the left I would put in the order of likely importance for a brand-new visitor. For me that would be Overview, Download, BYOND Hub, DM InfoCenter, Forum, What's New?, and Products. A new visitor may not have any idea what "BYOND Hub" or "DM InfoCenter" means and I don't think they're very likely to explore those right away. I'd put a clear description of what the hub is on the Hub page and on the Overview page. (Oh, and the white links in the lavender block on the Hub page are quite hard to read.)

Next, the forum. How hard would it be to change the titles of the various topics? The descriptions of what's supposed to go on in each topic are overlooked with regularity; even I thought "Code and Demos" was about coding problems for a long time. There are posts from people struggling to figure out what's wrong with their code in every topic.

If it's not a real hassle to change topic names, I'd suggest something like:

Newbie Central - Drop in to say Hi, get the latest FAQ and ask questions to the oldbies.
Code Problems - Get help with making your program do what you want.
Design Philosophy - Banter about the techniques and components of world design.
Creations - Post code snippets or direct others to your new worlds.
Report & Request - Discuss BYOND, report BYOND bugs and request new features.
Babble - Babble about anything you want!

I also think the menu (for the site, not the forum) makes the site look industrial and utilitarian; it doesn't say, "This is a fun and exciting program for game lovers!" as much as, "This is a competent accounting program suitable for small businesses."

Anyone who reads the overview page will see what BYOND really is, but I want them to get the idea right off the bat. I think I remember you saying you liked the background on the menu page, but I'd experiment... try flipping it upside-down or switching to simple blue or black. Try changing the font and spacing the menu items out so they aren't all crowded at the top. And make some excitingly chunky graphics with whatever you used to make the BYOND logo, and put them in there. (If smaller letters look as good as the big ones in the logo do, you could even do the menu items with it.)

I think more screenshots from actual games would be nice for the Overview page... maybe you've already talked about that too, I dunno. The old DO pics are still awesome. I can get a shot of Backgammon if you like. Well, anyone can do that, I guess. Oh, I'd also make it clear on the Overview page that BYOND is great for making text-only games too... there's a lot of people out there like me who want to make MUDs, and not a lot of systems to work with. Occasionally I check other systems like BYOND and I haven't found a one that's clear about being able to do this.

The rest of us can work hard on making sure the info in the InfoCenter is up to date, and providing links where people can get free sound effects and graphics and midi, if you like. And... how's the referral system coming along?

Z
On 12/10/00 1:28 pm Zilal wrote:
I can't remember if you've already talked about changing this or not... I'd make the Overview page (or something like it) the first page people see when they come to a site. Quite frequently when I visit websites for programs I'm interested in, I'm first presented with a news page, and if I have to click around just to find out what the heck SuperGameMaker IS, I sometimes get frustrated and give up.

I agree with a lot of what you mentioned, but I'm not sure about this one.

The major failing of many sites in the world is that their home page is old and stale and doesn't reflect anthing that's happened recently. Frequently you can't tell if the project is still alive.

Having the News as the first page (with prominent link to overview) makes it clear real fast that this is a going concern, and gets programmers right into things.

It might be helpful if (as might be in the works) there were a separate player site/home page with player-based news listing the latest games available and such. Effectively, content that us developers would more or less provide.
On 12/10/00 1:28 pm Zilal wrote:
I can't remember if you've already talked about changing this or not... I'd make the Overview page (or something like it) the first page people see when they come to a site. Quite frequently when I visit websites for programs I'm interested in, I'm first presented with a news page, and if I have to click around just to find out what the heck SuperGameMaker IS, I sometimes get frustrated and give up.

That's what I used to think to, but it seems like most of the sites I go to these days do have the news as the main page, and I've become acclimated to this model. I could make it so that until you visit the News for the first time the Overview/StartHere/etc is used as the main page. Do you think that would make sense?

The links on the left I would put in the order of likely importance for a brand-new visitor. For me that would be Overview, Download, BYOND Hub, DM InfoCenter, Forum, What's New?, and Products. A new visitor may not have any idea what "BYOND Hub" or "DM InfoCenter" means and I don't think they're very likely to explore those right away. I'd put a clear description of what the hub is on the Hub page and on the Overview page. (Oh, and the white links in the lavender block on the Hub page are quite hard to read.)

Agreed and agreed. We'll fix this. The entire sidebar is being expanded to include more useful crap for newbies and oldbies alike. I'm hoping also that it can be used to inform users when there are new messages in the forum, new tutorials, new games, etc.

Next, the forum. How hard would it be to change the titles of the various topics? The descriptions of what's supposed to go on in each topic are overlooked with regularity; even I thought "Code and Demos" was about coding problems for a long time. There are posts from people struggling to figure out what's wrong with their code in every topic.

I like your name suggestions. I'll go ahead and use those, unless anyone has any differing options. We can also add new categories if people feel the need.

I also think the menu (for the site, not the forum) makes the site look industrial and utilitarian; it doesn't say, "This is a fun and exciting program for game lovers!" as much as, "This is a competent accounting program suitable for small businesses."

Agreed. I'll see what I can do. Does anyone on this site have a penchant for glitz? I would like to spruce up the site with some professional-looking menu items/buttons, but I'm really lousy at this kind of thing.


I think more screenshots from actual games would be nice for the Overview page... maybe you've already talked about that too, I dunno.

Yes. I'll post lots of them. Guy T. already sent me some, and if any of you want to contribute feel free to email me or post a link or whatever. Actually, we should just have a page to post them yourself. That'll be easy enough to do.

The rest of us can work hard on making sure the info in the InfoCenter is up to date, and providing links where people can get free sound effects and graphics and midi, if you like.

That would be excellent. I'm counting on everyone here to populate the InfoCenter with links and tutorials once it is ready.

And... how's the referral system coming along?

Dan's in charge of that, but I think it is all in place. It's just a matter of getting everyone to use it.

Thanks for the input!
In response to Tom H.
On 12/10/00 6:36 pm Tom H. wrote:
I could make it so that until you visit the News for the first time the Overview/StartHere/etc is used as the main page.

Yes, that sounds good. Deadron also mentioned the "staleness" factor... Another option is to put a news bulletin at the top of the Overview page, or something, saying "Latest news - 12/10/00 - Version 266 out!" with linkage to the news page.

Z

When you use the Live! link, if no one is playing a game you are given a hub link to click instead. This hub links points to the old hub page rather than the new one.