In response to Deadron
Yeah I think the people hosting are the one of the main factors in price rising. And they also right the price per bandwidth, which the communication sectors control. It all boils down to providers, to cover cost.

LJR
In response to Jon Snow
Ah ok ;) The key item there. Co-signer.. Well then good luck and the best advice I can ever offer to anyone.. Watch and care about your credit history, later in life it can help or hurt you...

LJR
In response to Jon Snow
You BYOND has been nice the past months for what I call Quicky Games.. but I've been itching to get back into my C/C++ programming and start making my 1st 3D game. I have all the resources, just need to make my own 3D graphics engine, which will take sometime. If I do start a game, I'll invite some of your guys from here to work on it, as some of you here show real talent. ;)

LJR
In response to Foomer
Or email dantom@dantom.com

LJR
Thanks for all of your thoughts on this subject. Foomer makes an excellent point about how the value of BYOND dimes could be calculated based on the BYOND population and how much of a hastle it is to obtain them. It would be interesting to know just how much money is floating around in the BYOND economy.
In response to Kujila
Trust in most our eyes, those PEOPLE you talkin about are the minority of our cares.

LJR
In response to Vicious
You since we're on the subject, I think people who save other player's data on their systems should charge for that data storage, but thats just me! :P

LJR
In response to Mertek
I disagree, from a game's stand point, people who don't like it enough to pay what the creator ask, don't belong there in the 1st place. Unless you've spent months or days slaving your ever waking moment on these games as some of us have, then I don't expect you to understand my statement.

LJR
In response to Kujila
Get off this thread, your post was not related.

LJR
In response to Kujila
Good point! I know that when I make a game, I always remember the portion of my audience which doesn't give a damn. Which, in retrospect, may be why I never finish any of my games. Could you give me a list of all the people like you so I can ban you from my pager? Or maybe you could just teach all of them how to replicate your problems with Dreamseeker? Thanks!
In response to Lesbian Assassin
This is the main reason I am not going to charge for my game. Well my first real game that I have dedicated myself to. (Evolution of Eternity)

As I just really don't want the hassle of people complaining to me that I am ripping them off. I want lots of people to play my game and have fun with no restrictions of subscriptions.

I do have a donation verb, where the player choose how much he/she would wish to donate towrds the game, but like I have always said to myself, I might never charge for my games at all.

--Lee
In response to SilkWizard
SilkWizard wrote:
Thanks for all of your thoughts on this subject. Foomer makes an excellent point about how the value of BYOND dimes could be calculated based on the BYOND population and how much of a hastle it is to obtain them. It would be interesting to know just how much money is floating around in the BYOND economy.

I think Dan told me like $1700 or something like that.
In response to LordJR
Eh, I think $1 a month isn't bad...ESPECIALLY if it's just for some add-ons :)

But really, I think BYOND is great because it gives you an environment to work within. In my programming experience with C/C++ (Which is this very similar to) you have an open environment (unless you use MS stuff). BYOND is easy to build with and can provide very high quality games once the netcode is bug-free and more optimized ( not easy ). I mean, games cannot be defined by their graphics or else you're not really rating the programmer's time. Seriously, if that's all you care about, go take DOOM and add your 3D graphics engines out there because that's all you really deserve.

Take, for example, a game called Mordor ( for which I am making a type of spin-off game ). It had terrible graphics, mediocre sound, but was addictive and had great gameplay elements. One could easily spend 500 hours on it and still not beat it :)

Games like that are classics and are ones I'd pay for. I think BYOND's community shows tons of talent ( especially considering there are no REAL strong elements with advanced stuff and we have to pioneer new methods all the time. ).

But that's just my 2 cents.

By the way, I'd never pay $14 a month for a game after paying $40 - $50 for it. It's rediculous if you ask me.
In response to ShadowWolf
I made over 400 bucks by selling my accounts that I payed 10 a month for... They were UO accounts I sold them for well over a thousand about a year ago... So it's well worth it :)

NOt to mention the in-game money, magic items, etc I sold on e-bay I probably made well over 2000...
One dollar a month is a very reasonable cost for extra features on a quality game. I wouldn't have any problem shelling out five dollars a month for a high quality game that I played often. (The only reason I don't subscribe to more BYOND games is that I rarely have time to play them.) Most of the people who complained the loudest about the cost of Tanks are also the ones who faithfully buy a subscription every month.

The only way people will get over the "golden BYONDdimes" syndrone are if people start charging more reasonable prices for their effort. If all quality games charge five dollars a month, people will pay it without complaint. There will always be low quality free games on BYOND for people who don't like the rates.

My main problem is that the cheap people who think my effort on Tanks isn't worth anything actively discourage other players from subscribing by banning players that use subscription features. My generousity in letting non-subscribers host the game bit me. Since Tanks is more of an experiment than a money making venture its not that big a deal, but my other games will not make the same mistake.

Darke Dungeon will charge between one and two dollars a month for people who want to host a server or save characters who advance above a certain degree. If you've played the game long enough for a powerful character then you are getting a greater value than going to see a two hour movie for seven bucks. I won't charge inflated prices for soda and popcorn either. :P

There are a lot of people who won't play because of the price. Their loss, not mine. :P If a freebie moocher chooses not to play, what do I really lose? Dimes? No. If I didn't charge, I wouldn't get any dimes from him either. I lose his respect? No. He didn't respect my product to begin with if he thinks it isn't worth anything. The only thing I lose is quantity of players. You won't have the most crowded servers on the Games Live list.

The question is: Do you want a few people to play your game, who honestly appreciate and reward you for making it, or do you want crowded servers full of people who don't give a crap? If it is more important to have numbers than to have respect, then do not charge for your game.
In response to Shadowdarke
My main problem is that the cheap people who think my effort on Tanks isn't worth anything actively discourage other players from subscribing by banning players that use subscription features. My generousity in letting non-subscribers host the game bit me. Since Tanks is more of an experiment than a money making venture its not that big a deal, but my other games will not make the same mistake.

I had no idea that was the case, but there's nothing stopping you from uploading a new version that requires a subscription to host, is there? You can do the evil "nasty exploit discovered" trick. ;-)
In response to Shadowdarke
Here! here! I couldn't agree with ya more! This has been my point all along. So if you don't have DIMES, then shut up.. zip.. zi zi ze zip.. Mr. Zippy zip zip zipper.. shh.. no.. time.. you got.. to ... zip.. zip .zip it.. REAL good! Zippy.. zippy zippy zip zip.. (Ok enough of the Dr. Evil spin-off) You get the idea we creators don't wanna here it, just move along.. nothing to see.. don't need to tell the world how poor you are and how we suck because we actual charage something.

LJR

Shadowdarke wrote:
There are a lot of people who won't play because of the price. Their loss, not mine. :P If a freebie moocher chooses not to play, what do I really lose? Dimes? No. If I didn't charge, I wouldn't get any dimes from him either. I lose his respect? No. He didn't respect my product to begin with if he thinks it isn't worth anything. The only thing I lose is quantity of players. You won't have the most crowded servers on the Games Live list.

The question is: Do you want a few people to play your game, who honestly appreciate and reward you for making it, or do you want crowded servers full of people who don't give a crap? If it is more important to have numbers than to have respect, then do not charge for your game.
In response to Spuzzum
Spuzzum wrote:
My main problem is that the cheap people who think my effort on Tanks isn't worth anything actively discourage other players from subscribing by banning players that use subscription features. My generousity in letting non-subscribers host the game bit me. Since Tanks is more of an experiment than a money making venture its not that big a deal, but my other games will not make the same mistake.

I had no idea that was the case, but there's nothing stopping you from uploading a new version that requires a subscription to host, is there? You can do the evil "nasty exploit discovered" trick. ;-)

What trick?
In response to Sariat
Sariat wrote:
Spuzzum wrote:
I had no idea that was the case, but there's nothing stopping you from uploading a new version that requires a subscription to host, is there? You can do the evil "nasty exploit discovered" trick. ;-)

What trick?

The trick I used around version 5 of Tanks when I accidently distributed the subscription free version and quickly released version 6 later the same day with a "critical bug fix" that restored the subscription checking. ;)
In response to Shadowdarke
Ha!
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