ID:154577
 
A certain someone said that "It's hard to make games without graphics." (You know who you are. =)

I disagree! Sure, some of the MUDs out there in cyberspace are totally uninspired... like Phantasy Star MUD, for instance, which is themed at PKilling. If anyone here has followed the wonderful Phantasy Star series, you'll know that this is a practically total deviation from the point of Phantasy Star.

Anyway, getting back to the subject at hand, there's thousands of completely fun, text-based MUDs out there, each of which has months or even years of careful devotion to getting it running in tip-top shape. The key word is 'text-based'. They don't use graphics. When people were asked whether or not they would like a particular MUD converted to graphical, the majority was strongly opposed (I forget when and where I read about this, but it happened once).

What I'm trying to get at is that MUDs, though non-graphical, attract a huge audience. Take a look at GemStone III, or anything else. Graphical, even 3D graphical, might seem like the way to go nowadays, but I assure you, even simple games with a lot of depth will attract audiences forever.

Of course, if you're doing a themed game like Phantasy Star, then yes, graphics are a must. (That certain someone who I quoted above does have a point.) But if you're making your own original world, completely devoid of any ties to anything existing or formerly existing, then graphics are sometimes not only unnecessary, but sometimes a hindrance.

Sure, I admit BYOND is designed for graphics, but you can't rule out the case that if BYOND does not have a map, then it doesn't show a map. In other words, BYOND is fully capable of running without graphics, and doing a bang-up job, at that.

I've always wanted to create a text-based MUD, actually, but I absorbed it into The Haven Seed. When I get AntWorld to a beta, maybe I'll break it away again and see what happens.
On 3/2/01 11:28 pm Spuzzum wrote:
A certain someone said that "It's hard to make games without graphics." (You know who you are. =)

In case that's a reference to me, let me clarify my position:

Text games are easy to make, in the sense that almost all production time goes into content rather than into glitz and if you can imagine it, you can put it in your game.


2D games are moderately easy to make in that you can choose to spend only a small amount of time on graphics if you wish.

3D games are hard, because any amount of graphic work is intensive.

That said, it's hard to make a text game that I (and almost everyone I know who plays MUDs) will play over a graphic-based game. Most text MUDders who spend some time in a graphic MUD find it hard to go back.

Of course people will know of exceptions to that, but that's the experience I've seen in my group of friends, some of whom have been playing text MUDs since before most people on this Forum were born...
In response to Deadron (#1)
On 3/3/01 1:52 am Deadron wrote:
On 3/2/01 11:28 pm Spuzzum wrote:
A certain someone said that "It's hard to make games without graphics." (You know who you are. =)

In case that's a reference to me, let me clarify my position: [snip]

Well, it's not a reference to you, but you do present a point. =)
I like text mud better. It faster and more content intensive. I have tried playing only text based mud online. But from my experience with BYOND graphic games, I see that speed is a major issue. I do not adjust well to lags. The only graphical game that I play regularly online is Counter Strike. The lag in that game kills off all my fun factor.

Having a mud game that install is not within my means. I have too many game offline in my harddrive. So, if its not the promise of designing a game, I would not even install BYOND. Of course, I have yet to create one...

As I see it, I'll only play graphical game only if the bandwith in my country get better. As it is, our "broadband" functions at less than 200kbs. :(
In response to Deadron (#1)
On 3/3/01 1:52 am Deadron wrote:
That said, it's hard to make a text game that I (and almost everyone I know who plays MUDs) will play over a graphic-based game. Most text MUDders who spend some time in a graphic MUD find it hard to go back.

Of course people will know of exceptions to that, but that's the experience I've seen in my group of friends, some of whom have been playing text MUDs since before most people on this Forum were born...

I've been playing text-based MUDs for a long time, and then I went out and played Asheron's Call. I didn't want to go back to text-based games except for one thing - the 3D-graphics were great, but there was so little social interaction. When the text box is half an inch by 3 inches, and it requires switching from the mouse to the keyboard to type, then it's just a miserable social game.

So I went back to text based MUDs. When the technology reaches the point of immersion by graphics, and the graphics can add the nuances that text can, then I'll gladly switch. Even a good 2D/text game I'd go for.

Even years later, I can draw a 100,000 room world I played because I memorized it in it's entirety. I was so immersed in the text based world that I didn't need graphics. I'd see something scroll across the screen and the pictures become alive in my head. It was great! I'd like to see the same thing happen in a 3D graphic world (just plug my brain into it).

EQ, UO, AC... They all have the graphics down, but they miss the nuances that text can add to a world. Those nuances are what made addicts out of a generation of players. Some of us can switch and stick with it, some of us can't. I'd like to see the day when all of us can switch and say, "-droooool-". If I'm still alive, I'll be there.

A good portion of the text-based players that I've known and have played (or continue to play) the graphic based games have told me that they prefere playing text-based. Those that stick with the graphics are mainly because they spent enough time there to develop a history, a certain amount of respect and position, and the text-based systems they used to play were stale to them when they made the switch. The power of forward momentum I guess.

Some of these players, when I asked them why they didn't stick with graphic based games gave me something similar to what I wrote before - that the nuances weren't there.

I don't have any hard statistics, but my understanding is that the number of players playing text-based systems has grown considerably over the past ten years. A great number of players, drawn into Internet by whatever factors, end up playing MU*'s. The graphic systems attract their share which greatly outnumbers the text-based world, yet the text-based world still is growning.
In response to Gabriel (#4)
On 3/4/01 2:47 pm Gabriel wrote:
Some of these players, when I asked them why they didn't stick with graphic based games gave me something similar to what I wrote before - that the nuances weren't there.

It'll be a short matter of time...UO had many of those nuances, but not the game design to be successful.

EQ has improved considerably in the past 2 years, and I expect the next generation games from Verant to be quite impressive.

Given the amount of resources being put into the graphical MUD genre, and the incredibly large number of players, I believe that the games will mature rapidly and that just about anyone will find a game that works for them.

That said, text will never go away and I hope it never does. It doesn't work for me (in spite of being one of those life-long readers who used to read a book a day in my teen years), but in addition to those who prefer text there are those who have no choice but text, like blind people and such...
In response to Deadron (#5)
I've MUDed before and played EQ. Mudding is fun in it's own way and graphic intense RPG's like EQ are fun in thier own. Sometimes I like the fast pased rush of stopping an entire castle of creatures and then making the most powerful creature fight for me.(True story, Mistmoore...EQ)
In response to karver (#6)
On 3/10/01 6:28 pm Karver wrote:
I've MUDed before and played EQ. Mudding is fun in it's own way and graphic intense RPG's like EQ are fun in thier own. Sometimes I like the fast pased rush of stopping an entire castle of creatures and then making the most powerful creature fight for me.(True story, Mistmoore...EQ)

This is completely pointless and nobody cares, but we had a big invasion in GS a week ago, and I do declare, I have never seen anything quite like this:

[Upper Trollfang]
You are standing at a broad T-intersection. The main road appears to run east to west while a smaller street runs off to the north. To the south can be seen a grove of large willow trees. You also see a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, the Megaladon disk, a mottled yellow troll which appears dead, a mottled yellow troll that appears stunned, a large white thunder troll that appears stunned, the Koja disk, a dirty green troll which appears dead, a mottled yellow troll that appears stunned, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a hill troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, an enormous grey troll, a dirty green troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a spotted owl who is lying down, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll, a mottled yellow troll, a gigantic white troll, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a large white thunder troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll, a large white thunder troll, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll, a gigantic white troll, a large white thunder troll, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll, a large white thunder troll, an augmented breastplate, a hill troll who appears rather calm, a large white thunder troll, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll, a large white thunder troll, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll, a gigantic white troll, a calico cat who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll, a large white thunder troll, a large white thunder troll, a large white thunder troll, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll, a gigantic white troll, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a large white thunder troll, a mottled yellow troll, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll, a mottled yellow troll, a large white thunder troll, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll, a mottled yellow troll, a mottled yellow troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, the Kadesha disk, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll, a simple fel chest, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll, a mottled yellow troll, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a large white thunder troll, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll who appears rather calm, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a gigantic white troll, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who appears rather calm, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll, a mottled yellow troll, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll, an augmented breastplate and a stained yellow jacket.
Also here: Proteaus, Megaladon, Aurach, Lord Krovax, Koja, Lord Celtic, Lord Zio, the body of Lord Slayd who is lying down, Gremblar who is lying down, Qya, Lady Bhambi, Lady Angellisa, Joscelyna, Dwarren, Lady Shrelae, the body of Lady Heavenmoon who is lying down, Lady Kadesha
Obvious paths: north, east, west.

That's about five times more creatures than I'd ever seen in a single room before. I'm rather proud of myself for making it out alive. But that was a fast-paced rush if anything was, hehe. I'm the only one who gives a damn but I had to post.

Z
In response to Zilal (#7)
a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a mottled yellow troll who is lying down, a large white thunder troll, a mottled yellow troll, a large white thunder troll, a dirty green troll who is lying down, a gigantic white troll, a mottled yellow troll, an augmented breastplate and a stained yellow jacket.

Nobody reply to this message! It's just a troll.