ID:1574831
 
Well I am sure this most likely not a new idea but it might be something that might work but I wanted to run it threw the forum and see if anyone has any ideas that can improve the idea.

I'm trying to make a combat system that takes off one hit kills off the table and make any player count as a useful person. I want to try to step away from most combat system found on Byond with stats that are insane and one man can beat everyone at the same time. The way I can see to think a way of doing this is making the health a lot larger then the other stats then put a level & stat cap on all stats. For example
Starting Stats
Health - 1500 max: 2000
Mana - 1000 max: 2000
Str - 50 + ? max: 500
Def - 50 + ? max: 500
Speed - 50 + ? max: 500
-You get 500 points to split between str, def, and speed plus the 50 to start
I decided to use large numbers to start with because it will make the it easier for power up leaving a gap in order to prevent one hit kills.

This is not just to prevent 1 hit kills but also with keeping everyone near the same stats it makes new players mater just as much as long time players because even though they might not be as experience they can be useful. Of course going one on one with someone who is new with no skills vs someone who as max out there stats the one who has been playing and max out there stats will win. But if you take that same max out player and they come across of two players that have decent stats with a good amount of skills and tries to fight them both at the same time. That would not be as easy. The two players will have a fighting chance.

Also with this system fights will last a lot longer and not blink and miss the fight.

The problem I seem to see with it is that if two new player with no skills try and fight each other it would take a while for the fight to end.
Well zelda isn't a pvp game so you don't really need stats. And for the stat it's been a while since I played but i'm sure you heath is hearts and when they run out you die depending how bad the damage is you lose a set amount of hearts.... and i'm sure you have to hit monsters a set amount of times or do a amount of damage to beat them. To be honest i think there is stats somewhere in there you just don't see it.
Yut Put wrote:
give everyone an even playing ground and don't make it based on levels or stats or whatever nonsense BYOND games have forced into your mind
You can't blame byond, most MMO-RPGs reward throwing time into numbers and are very grindy. Why most BYONDers think of their games as MMO-Action-Adventure-RPG Open-World Horse Porn blah bah blah is another story no one gives a shit about.


Back On Topic: Your solution is a bit silly because the "problem" is silly. You can't have equal footing AND time-sink stat raising. Also your equal footing sucks, giving people propped up health just so they don't get instant killed is silly.

Personally, if your combat is a big part of your game you should be thinking of ways to make it fun, not worrying about how much stats/stat caps or whatever. Stat caps and balancing come after.
Well stat's are not the main part of the combat system. It's really just a skeleton to hold the foundation of the system. Also it's not really made for equal footing but to keep everyone with in a level that would make the combat system more effective. For example if someone Max out all there stats with only had his basic punch and kick, comes across a guy who has his same stats when he begun the game but has all his skills. He would most likely win and have fun doing it. But the fight will drag on while this is happening.

Because let's face it, if someone can beat you in a move or two there is no real system behind it.

So the stats are just a means to create the real combat behind it.
Stats are no way to hold up a combat system. What does your combat exactly entail?
You can try a system that makes it so you need equipment to be useful, and already have preset stats depending on your class.

Like say i have class Swordsman
Swordsman - 600 str, 500 def, 200 mana, 700 speed, 5,000 hp

Then a set of equipment specifically for swordsman.
Sword <- Can be a specific equipment for swordsman then you have to kill monsters/ npcs or whatever to get better equipment some equipment can go up to over 2,000 stats. Basically a giant equipment hunt is your lvl. The better your equipment the better your stats.
None of that deals with the actual combat either.
In response to Jittai
Jittai wrote:
Stats are no way to hold up a combat system.



Well yes it does even if you don't see it stats do hold up a combat system. Every game has some sort of stat system that sets health and damage in the game. Some have stats might never change and skills are added on top of it have have boost but stats are always there.

And the combat system is nothing special. Normal projectiles, combos skill, team skills, binding, area type attacks. Just a lot of different type of skills broken down into classes and elements people get to choose from. And so far all I've been getting is "Stats don't matter." No reason, no suggests on how you would make a type of combat system with no stats. I'm all ears but people just saying stats don't matter really doesn't help.
Stats don't matter if the combat is boring. Just cause stats may effect combat doesn't mean stats hold it together. Stats do matter but they are in no way a combat system.

"Normal projectiles, combos skill, team skills, binding, area type attacks."
Is actually describing a combat system, albeit a vague and probably boring one.

Your thread is titled "creating a combat system" but you say "And the combat system is nothing special." I'm kind of confused. Is this topic about actually designing a combat system or just balancing?

Some questions you should ask yourself: (I gather you don't want turn based.) What controls should the player be using? How fast/slow should actions be taken? Fast or slow paced? Bullet hell fast maybe? Slow and tactful?

And that's just pacing issues. You'll have to consider death penalties and how they effect combat, among other things. There's a lot that goes into "combat". If your game is combat orientated then you should put a lot of thought into it.

As for OHKOs, would killing other players provide any benefit? Then those benefits should be lessened for killing people much weaker than you. For cases of people just newb-hunting it really depends on the game. You could add some sort of negative reputation on them but how this effects them would lean on the game's "world"lore.
Well it is nothing special because i'm sure it has been done before. It's nothing ground breaking but I'm sure it's new to Byond(For at least that's what I've been told from people who help me test skills). Also being a little modest :-).

Also I'm being vague because some of the skills would make no sense if I just type out the name of the skill, I would have to go into detail for the skills and I just don't feel like typing that much.

And short answer no. This is not one of Byond's fine anime games. I was just using those ass examples.

What I am trying to do is not really talk about skills but stats and how to make it get to a point to where they are useful but not the main focus. To put a little realism and a concept into effect that 1 man can't beat an Army. But at the same time make a noticeable gap between someone who has just started and someone who is been around for a while. Which is why I posted here. To get feed back on how this can be done.

You on the other hand just seem to come here to pick at everything I say and not really give any feed back or help.

Well...
"Stats don't matter if the combat is boring" Well I guess that is some what true and I will have to make sure not to over look it.

Edit*
Well I have that worked out and most of it already programed. It's suppose to a fast pace combat system with a good amount of computer assisting(Meaning while targeting or doing hand to hand combos there are buttons you can press and it will quickly get you to your target.) But from preventing it from being spammed there will be limits on how much you can do such things and you can also be knock out of it by attacks and will have to wait before doing it again.

There are things like cut scenes attack that will happen after you reach an amount of hits with out missing the only thing I don't like about it is that I had to turn of damage so it can play out and no one can interrupted until it's finish.(part of me likes this idea part of me didn't so just flip a coin.)

There is a good amount of other things in there too. It's not like I haven't thought it out. I'm just trying to get the fights to last longer then 5 seconds so people can try to enjoy them.
For the record. Jitai isn't trolling, being a jerk, or anything. It's easy to mistake him as aiming for that, I almost did once, but he's just not one for sugar coating. He's trying to help, you're just not quite following what he's saying; which is fine.

Your topic title was miss-leading, so he has been focusing on the mechanics of your combat system. Things like the pace, the starting abilities, and so on; anything that makes your combat system... Yours. He was looking to see what you had in mind, and suggest changes or additions, in my opinion.

You're just looking for how to handle long term players versus newb balancing. There's a few ways to do this, and most of it has come up already. It really just depends on your game.

You could have it be all about equipment progression, or skill progression, or both and in any case have stats static for one method. Another way is that you could have stats cap at a point and make differences from that point just be equipment and/or skills.

In the latter, stats still matter, and could easily cost you the battle but they won't completely eliminate the chance to win for newbs. In the former, the player with the skills or equipment would have the advantage, but if you don't make the equipment stats too high or the skills too different on damage then you'll give the new players a pretty good chance of winning.

You can also make indirect stats to compete with, like level. Depending on what level ups give, level, or even just experience can be a means to compete with endless progression.

None of this is right or wrong, and like I said a lots come up already... It just depends on you and your game. There's a lot of other methods out there, like focusing on story progression and keeping combat more static, or who knows. Too much to list without more information.
In response to Jittai
Jittai wrote:
None of that deals with the actual combat either.

It fixes lvl problem though xD.
Gonna have to refer to Call of Duty once again. An excellent example of a PVP game with experience and levels, but which maintains a level playing field. This is because your level doesn't just arbitrarily make you more powerful. Instead it allows you to use more specialized items, and perks. Everything is quite balanced - for example, you might use FMJ with a gun to do more damage, but you have to drop something else (like a scope or something) in order to use it. Any game with stats and levels that directly make you more powerful is going to have an un-even playing field in PVP.
In response to Ghost of ET
Ghost of ET wrote:
Jittai wrote:
None of that deals with the actual combat either.

It fixes lvl problem though xD.

Nah, it just defers it to another arbitrary system.
In response to Ter13
Ter13 wrote:
Ghost of ET wrote:
Jittai wrote:
None of that deals with the actual combat either.

It fixes lvl problem though xD.

Nah, it just defers it to another arbitrary system.

Think about it this way if you're a new player, and someone is generous they can give you the gear you need to start playing with the big boys.
Think about it this way if you're a new player, and someone is generous they can give you the gear you need to start playing with the big boys.

Why would that be a good thing? If gathering the gear you need to fight the "big boys" is an annoyance, why would anyone want to spend the time gathering it in the first place?

If it's a good thing to be handed a shortcut to the endgame, you are irrevocably doing something wrong with everything else in your design philosophy.
In response to Ter13
If i went into details it would be Arch who would have to explain <3. Not me.
It was a rhetorical question. Your inability to describe why it's a good thing indicates that your ad-hoc reasoning wasn't a selling point, but an indication of a serious, serious design flaw.
In response to Ter13
Ter13 wrote:
It was a rhetorical question. Your inability to describe why it's a good thing indicates that your ad-hoc reasoning wasn't a selling point, but an indication of a serious, serious design flaw.

We really need a like feature.
pro/cons are a good way to make combat fair like oh this technique does alot of damage but is slow and misses or this is fast but is weak in damage etc this negates the oh ill just go full strength or whatever kind of people cause everything has a downside to make up for the unhidernedness people seek
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