No value in BYOND membership anymore?

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Jun 4 2014, 1:00 am
I wouldn't say I'm "fed up". I get annoyed at posts where people question whether we are working on this because we are and have been for a long time. At the same time, I've said it is basically a legacy project and that I don't consider that a bad thing. We are working to improve the software as we always have (the current thing being this web version), but I don't want people to anticipate or rely on this for their development efforts. That would be stupid because 90% of the code is still the same and if you hate what BYOND does today, this (or anything else we do) isn't going to change your mind.

Like Stephen, I was a senior engineer and made a lot of money at one point and BYOND has never come close to that. In fact, I'm not sure if I'm even in the positive as far as the money BYOND has made me, personally. Obviously I'd love that to change and the prospect of extra ad revenue / memberships / growth with the web version is a nice incentive for working on it, but at the same time, I'm not expecting it as money has never been the driving force for this project. What is the driving force? At one point, it was simply to do something fun and interesting and avoid having to get a real job. Now it is somewhere in between-- we've been playing with some newer technologies in these recent developments that I hope to carry over to other, non-BYOND (possibly spinoff) projects; at the same time, the system brings in a bit of money to somewhat sustain itself, and I consider that a monumental achievement. Get rich slow!

Also, the Dan excuse is old. We may hint time to time that this is "Dan code" and hence unreadable but we know this system in and out and the main reason we haven't changed protocols etc. is that it is just a real mess when you have a massive, stable product with enough users to notice problems immediately. It is hard to explain unless you've been in that situation. I can see how people might think this is a defeatist attitude-- why not make the best product possible?-- but, again, I don't think legacy software that does some pretty cool things is such a bad thing, all things considered.
Jun 4 2014, 1:09 am
In response to Tom
Tom wrote:
I wouldn't say I'm "fed up". I get annoyed at posts where people question whether we are working on this because we are and have been for a long time. At the same time, I've said it is basically a legacy project and that I don't consider that a bad thing. We are working to improve the software as we always have (the current thing being this web version), but I don't want people to anticipate or rely on this for their development efforts. That would be stupid because 90% of the code is still the same and if you hate what BYOND does today, this (or anything else we do) isn't going to change your mind.

Like Stephen, I was a senior engineer and made a lot of money at one point and BYOND has never come close to that. In fact, I'm not sure if I'm even in the positive as far as the money BYOND has made me, personally. Obviously I'd love that to change and the prospect of extra ad revenue / memberships / growth with the web version is a nice incentive for working on it, but at the same time, I'm not expecting it as money has never been the driving force for this project. What is the driving force? At one point, it was simply to do something fun and interesting and avoid having to get a real job. Now it is somewhere in between-- we've been playing with some newer technologies in these recent developments that I hope to carry over to other, non-BYOND (possibly spinoff) projects; at the same time, the system brings in a bit of money to somewhat sustain itself, and I consider that a monumental achievement. Get rich slow!

Also, the Dan excuse is old. We may hint time to time that this is "Dan code" and hence unreadable but we know this system in and out and the main reason we haven't changed protocols etc. is that it is just a real mess when you have a massive, stable product with enough users to notice problems immediately. It is hard to explain unless you've been in that situation. I can see how people might think this is a defeatist attitude-- why not make the best product possible?-- but, again, I don't think legacy software that does some pretty cool things is such a bad thing, all things considered.


Tom, the simple point am trying to make here is that; more benefits for members, means more members, more members, means more revenue, more revenue, means you can afford to develop BYOND even more.
Jun 4 2014, 1:34 am
Right, which would be better phrased as:

"What kind of memberships perks might BYOND offer, which makes it more appealing to it's target market?"

Which as openers in a topic goes, is a lot more positive and constructive than "Dude what, there's no point to buying BYOND memberships now :<". The tone of the OP has dictated the response you've gotten, basically.
Jun 15 2014, 2:58 am
I still wish and forever will keep wishing that we still had the customizable pages and the blog system in again. Even the customizable pages alone was something at least 90% of the people I know on BYOND used to buy memberships for.
Jun 15 2014, 7:46 am
Talk about melodramatic, yeesh. :P

Is your project viable in BYOND today? If it is, then ... I guess carry on working on your project? If it's not ... then you decided to plan a project on critical features that don't exist, instead of picking a more suitable platform ... which was maybe not a hot idea for your project?

The platform supportability is still there, I don't think I've seen any mention of Tom plain leaving the platform with massive holes in it or neglecting much needed bug-fixes. So it doesn't seem to me, there's anything to get 'depressed' about, as a game developer who happens to have planned a project on top of BYOND.

Anything more than that, feels to me to be somewhat unreasonable, as though there's a misunderstanding about a BYOND developer's or community member's stakeholding in BYOND and the demands they can place upon the BYOND staff. It's a friendly social/business arrangement, not marriage.
Jun 24 2014, 8:52 pm
I haven't really been doing much programming in DM lately since I have been striving to bring out more C++ projects as well as refine my x86 assembly skills for niche purposes. However, I have been thinking about trying to finish up the SByIo Library when I get a chance to complete what I need done for other developers to use on BYOND.

Technically, no one has scared me off from doing any programming in DM. I have been busy improving or learning skills I was trying to acquire for years.
Jun 25 2014, 9:46 am
I guess to make people who don't have a membership happy, just make a 30 second ad play every 10 minutes during their Dream Seeker session.

Allow members to bypass this. Then they will truly see the value of being a member and stop complaining.

~Ssj4justdale

Note: This was sarcasm.
Jun 25 2014, 9:47 am
^ This should, in-turn, bring some more ad-revenue as-well.
Jun 25 2014, 10:27 am
My membership ran out, and I was thinking of extending it, but... steam summer sale... luckily some stranger extended it for me. I don't know who (since I forgot to update my email) but thanks. When I get extra cash I'll be extending it further just cause someone out there is stalking me enough to notice I ran out.

Not to get off topic but: I still say there should be ads in the pager, a lot of empty space on a few of the tabs and most of the time it's minimized anyway. As long as they don't have sound I don't see how anyone could object to that.
Jun 25 2014, 10:28 am
I agree
Jun 25 2014, 10:28 am
I hate things being cluttered, but when things are empty, it drives me even more insane xD
Jul 2 2014, 1:43 pm
Why can't you just shut your stupid faces and enjoy what you have? "It's not what it used to be." So what! It is what it is. These forums aren't what they used to be because you useless taints keep arguing over whether or not the suite is even worth using anymore. Here's an idea, make a game, play a game, support the community, and unless your words are constructive, keep your traps shut. I can't tell you how many times I've come to peruse this forum and been put off by these "state of byond[sic]" threads, just closing the browser entirely.
Jul 2 2014, 1:54 pm
I liked the old post that got trashed, but that one is good too.
Jul 2 2014, 1:59 pm
In response to Hiro the Dragon King
Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
make a game

Sorry, but you're wasting your time saying this. We've been over this a thousand times, and the general consensus is "no, let's not make games. Let's have another state of BYOND thread instead and talk about guilds, blogs, and membership benefits."

Jul 2 2014, 2:09 pm
I was a fan of the original post as well, but it was a bit rough.
Jul 2 2014, 3:08 pm
In response to Hiro the Dragon King
I for one enjoyed what I had, but that was taken away lol. For the software, I'm completely fine with BYOND. Website wise is where I feel it went to shit. These forums aren't what they used to be because most of the "useless taints" have already left and all that's left are you programmers who tell everyone else to make a game while being completely capable of making many yourselves. I understand where you're coming from and posts like this can get annoying sometimes but you're coming as quite the hypocrite when I see what you're complaining about and then re-read your post.

Some people care about what will happen to BYOND and despite not being able to make a game, they want to make a post on the forum to see if anything can be done even if it's out of their own hands.

I completely get that BYOND isn't exactly making money and that it's considered being a "complete" thing. But narrowing your audience is definitely not the way to go about it. But posts like yours of course will never be deleted because hey! you know how to program and contribute so much! The day that wall is torn down is the day BYOND could see the light of day.

For those that say "Go make a game", lead the way.
Jul 2 2014, 4:46 pm
In response to MDC
MDC wrote:
I understand where you're coming from and posts like this can get annoying sometimes but you're coming as quite the hypocrite when I see what you're complaining about and then re-read your post.
Hiro TDK wrote:
Here's an idea, make a game, play a game, support the community, and unless your words are constructive, keep your traps shut.

But posts like yours of course will never be deleted because hey! you know how to program and contribute so much! The day that wall is torn down is the day BYOND could see the light of day.
You missed- because it was deleted- the post where I told you to keep your c**t mouths shut. I've had several of my posts deleted over the years.

For those that say "Go make a game", lead the way.
I unfortunately have a life that restricts my time and money. I also don't spend my time bitching about BYOND on the forums. I've also made a game.
Jul 2 2014, 4:51 pm
No complaints about BYOND here. In fact, I just recently partially implemented a simple scripting language for SByIo Library. Very easy to use that anyone should be able to use it.

Available at the Github (which can be found on through a discussion on the hub entry).
Jul 2 2014, 4:59 pm
I too, only have a few complaints, but I (usually) reserve them for feature requests and bug reports, where they belong. Anyway, I propose that henceforth, all future threads in this manner should be immediately locked or deleted. This amendment shall be added to the forum guidelines as well.
Jul 2 2014, 6:12 pm
I just like supporting BYOND.
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