ID:1680434
 
So- I was told that it was because I "just wasn't paying them enough* by several people the last time I made a post like this. In an effort to understand what the issue may be now, let's recap.

I asked why pixel artists will work for free with projects that will never see the light of day or eventually be quit and forgotten about- and got a myriad of answers.

Armed with "I must not be paying them enough* I amassed a project budget ($1500 solid) for paying for art.

I ventured on the Byond classifieds, asked several artists and no dice. There were a few I heard were scammers despite their skill, the other few either didn't reply or said they were interested, then just didn't reply any further.

Not deterred, I wandered onto pixel joint forums, where I had a great many people respond. I hired one guy thus far, and in a week and a half's time I've gotten.....10 frames of artwork.


He admitted that he could do the work in 20-30 mins per frame. Which means in a week he devoted about oh, 5 hours of time. The kicker is that, I offered to pay him per animation and per frame, meaning when he had a complete set of any 1 animation, I'd pay him.

He assured me he had nothing BUT free time and that he was wide open schedule wise.

So.....
Here we are again. What excuse reasoning can be given for these people's lack of performance in the um..pixel department.
They have no reason. They all just shit faces that go MIA.
They are bad employees.
The hardest thing for me was knowing how much time an artist needs per frame. Everyone I've worked with before has been extremely slow. As I'm not an artist, I can't tell them how fast they should be producing work.

So I guess I have a quick question- How fast should your typical artist be producing work for you? I'm not quite sure how to gauge what is considered an acceptable work rate.
In response to Lavitiz
Acceptable is w hen I ask how long it will/should take, they say 2 weeks. Then.. 1 week in I expect it to be halfway done or at the least 25% done. -_-
if you gave him 2 weeks then obviously hes not going to be in a hurry to complete the work.

just think about when your professor tells you to write a paper on astrophysics.

you're not going to go home and immediately start writing your paper. you're going to 420blazeit, play some Destiny, take your lady friend to the movies, and then 15 minutes before the paper is due, start writing.

literally all of my essays were written 15 minutes before they were due. LIKE A BAUSE.
In response to EmpirezTeam
EmpirezTeam wrote:
if you gave him 2 weeks then obviously hes not going to be in a hurry to complete the work.

just think about when your professor tells you to write a paper on astrophysics.

you're not going to go home and immediately start writing your paper. you're going to 420blazeit, play some Destiny, take your lady friend to the movies, and then 15 minutes before the paper is due, start writing.

literally all of my essays were written 15 minutes before they were due. LIKE A BAUSE.

Real men write them in 13 mins.

I've hired out for art before. The first week was really just drafting out designs, but after that it took a little over 2 weeks for several hundred frames. Granted, it wasn't pixel art, so it went a lot faster. Still, after a week in, we had enough art that we could have reasonable looking game. After that time we had to talk out individual things that were missed, and since that was on and off, it took a while.

What I'm trying to get at is that I think it is reasonable to expect more than you got after a week. Unless an artist is working on a lot of projects, a week's time should be enough for a decent start.
What is a reasonable looking game? By whose standards? I will agree however that the design process tends to take alot of time. Pixel Artists are well artists...they like to think about their design and decide on whether or not it looks good before presenting any kind of result(decent ones anyway) It isn't like programming where you have a base concept and you go right into it immediately. For example you tell an artist to make a tree, first thing they do is consider the kind of trees. Which tree style fits the game. If you have artwork already they need to match it to that style. If you don't they now need to come up with a style that will be consistent through the project. Although this is me speaking for myself, I'm not sure what other peoples rationalizations are like. However, it is not as simple as giving a deadline. Sometimes you under/over estimate the task, because to be honest until you start creating you really don't have any clue how much time you will spend on a task that correlates to the amount of effort you put in. You also need to keep in mind you are hiring a single individual for the task of many.
In response to WeabooGamesInc
It's a base. A naked bald man with no undies.
At this point, that's all I've asked of the artist.. lol
Well then now I ask what your expectations are of that base. Even a seasoned deviant-artist can take a month or more on a base with heavily fluid animations.Is the artist making you simple animations like this:

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/012/e/5/ vaniraplain_by_pricechi-d5r81vm.gif



Or is he/she art proficient enough to be making something like this:

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/105/4/2/ Slay_Archwind___Combo_by_Conveito.gif

If you hired someone with animation skills like in the second link best believe you gon be waiting long. But, it will be worth it(im hoping you did considering your budget)
I feel so bad for you D: that i actually want to help lol, it just seems like you want to make a game D: but no pixel artist help you. Q_Q (not being sarcastic or anything) But here, try buying actual artwork instead of buying an artist. Also if you're needing a base i can provide a simple one with man panties,cause i've got a few of em laying around waiting to be thrown into a project.
In response to VixiV
Kalero could use a few art thrown at it... D:
In response to VixiV
I've tried that!! so much art that goes to waste on games that will never see the light of day on byond.....and NO ONE wants to sell!
I've offered 200+ dollars to several people for art that I know they have, and probably won't ever use.
No go.
I really don't understand the minds of artists!!
In response to VixiV
In regards Vixi this is what I am going for : First the project is an original game I'm making with my brother. It's working title is Mahou Academy, which as it sounds like, involves magic.

The focus of the gameplay is on casting spells on the fly and using elemental modifiers to change the properties of your spells to outwit and defeat your enemies, or other players. Memory plays a role, you don't have skills,you have spells which can be casted like "orb" , which can be further enhanced by using say chaos element (dark).

This orb then gains a new property, the ability to poison whatever it strikes or corrode inanimate objects as a for instance.

The player's role is a new mage who undergoes the customary magical training that all mages forego once they have the "gift", and to be drafted into a prestigious house of mages--only to have that house destroyed by a mysterious mage who seems to have the ability to resist any and all types of magic. It's then your job to uncover this person's identity, their goal and thwart them. (That is the story based element to the game)

Anyway here is a screen shot of the base done so far.



The size is 64x64 of which about 48x48 is used.
So far all that is done is idle state, and South and East run states.

This is the list of states I wanted :

"Day 1
Idle-Standing still with the eyes blinking. 3 States. NSE
Walk- I'd like a fluid walk state. 4 States(3 original)-NSE
Run- 4-6 Frames NSE (Note, for the run state, I want the character to run sort of like the characters in Naruto run, with their arms back and stationary. This should greatly simplfiy the animation)

Day 2
Punch- 4-5 Frames per punch(need a left punch and a right punch).NSE
Kick- 4-5 Frames per kick(need left kick and right kick).NSE (Note that the kicks should be martial arts type kicks like round houses or side kicks)

Day 3
Cast Magic- 3 Frames, from standing still arm does the piccolo "special beam cannon" animation. NSE
Cast Magic Hold- 2 Frames NSE
Concentrate/Focus- The character will close their eyes, tilt their head a bit and put their hands in front of their chest, between their hands bluish energy will begin to form in a small orb. 4-5 Frames(if needed add 1-2 extra)(ONLY SOUTH STATE)

Day 4
Single Handed Swing- 4-5 frames NSE
Two Handed Swing- 4-5 Frames NSE
Disintegrate- 5-6 Frames SOUTH ONLY
"



It was split up into days to put the work into perspective basically.

Anyway, as a pixel artist, the artwork isn't complex. I prefer simple art styles and artwork, for a multitude of reasons.
In response to Avidanimefan
Avidanimefan wrote:
I've tried that!! so much art that goes to waste on games that will never see the light of day on byond.....and NO ONE wants to sell!
I've offered 200+ dollars to several people for art that I know they have, and probably won't ever use.
No go.
I really don't understand the minds of artists!!

lol 200+ dollars for art they'll never use and they didn't sell it lol what type of people with false hope were you dealing with ?
Ganite wrote:
They have no reason. They all just shit faces that go MIA.

I know the feels.

EnigmaticGallivanter wrote:
They are bad employees.

I agree.

Lavitiz wrote:
The hardest thing for me was knowing how much time an artist needs per frame. Everyone I've worked with before has been extremely slow. As I'm not an artist, I can't tell them how fast they should be producing work.

So I guess I have a quick question- How fast should your typical artist be producing work for you? I'm not quite sure how to gauge what is considered an acceptable work rate.

I don't care how fast they are working. So long as they are at least communicating with me. Even if they're talking about playing a game with me on Steam, communicate and we're fine. At least I know you didn't go MIA. That's the shit that aggravates me the most and why I can't stand working with some people. The only person that doesn't go MIA is the one I created Shell Server with. Ss4toby. And we still work on stuff unrelated to Shell Server.

----

Why the hell don't all of us programmers go on strike and quit paying those greedy bastards? Let's learn how to do pixel art ourselves and gather around to share our knowledge, teaching each other what tricks we've learned. We'll show those punks.
In response to Southend_boi
Makes no sense.. I know, but to each their own!
In response to Xirre
lol you mad or nah? (just kidding)
It is frustrating I know.
In response to Avidanimefan
Avidanimefan wrote:
lol you mad or nah? (just kidding)
It is frustrating I know.

I'm mad.
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