ID:181803
 
AJX wrote:
You make a good game that isn't a rip, and you can start helping to fight the war against the animes! Until then... We should be trying to help these people, not condemn them. :)

Or, BYOND fixes a few lag issues, somebody provides some sort of open-server system for BYOND that can host multiple games with hundreds of people without lagging and can be accessed by multiple game owners, and then instead of having 30,000 of the same exact game, we have 1 of that game with all of those people in it. Suggesting we don't condemn the mindless rips is far from a solution to anything, I'd say its part of the problem.
What exactly would you consider an open-server system, if I may ask?
In response to Schnitzelnagler (#1)
Schnitzelnagler wrote:
What exactly would you consider an open-server system, if I may ask?

A shared server that can be freely used by certain competent game makers. Because most of the people on BYOND have connections/computers that can handle about 5 people before they hit levels of epic lag. If competent people that actually deserved it had access to steady servers that could handle large amounts of people it would not only cut down on the large amount of crappy rips needed, but prevent people from wanting to play them in the first place. The server I rent is by far the best investment I've made since I started making games on BYOND, but its ridiculously expensive; so having one that could be shared by the high points of the community would be nice. Most of the hosting services that are known/used by people around here completely suck. Instead of having countless crappy rips that are all exactly the same, each hosted on some crappy system that tops out with 5 players, we could pack those few hundred people into a single version of that game.
There should also be strict regulations on any new hub entries added, to cut down on the addition of yet more pointlessly idiotic clones, but the staff are unwilling to put forth any effort in that area.
In response to Falacy (#2)
And who is going to pay for this? .... Sorry but that is a terrible idea. If you want to do this, go set up a slicehost.

The only lag issue I've heard discussed that is actually valid is the issue with outside connection forcing 2 ticks in delay before refreshing map displays.

Back in the day a friend of mine hosted a game that hit 120+ people with no lag problems. I figure your issues are with your bandwidth limits not BYOND. If you really want to get to the base of your network problems I'd suggest a few things...
First: Get a TCP/IP monitoring program. This is the first free one I found while googling. http://sourceforge.net/projects/freemeter/

Second: Run a bandwidth test to see what your maximum capacity is. The typical ratio between the two is 1:10, in favor of the download. That means if you can download at 1 megabyte per second (8 megabits per second, most tests are in bits not bytes.) then you will usually upload at around 150 kilobytes per second max, or roughly 1 megabit per second. Keep this in mind: Your upload and download are shared. That means if you're using 50-100 KB up, you will only be able to use around half of your remaining download max.

Anyway~
Yea, if you want to actually solve your issues, get the following information, and go post it in the Comp & Tech forums and we'll discuss it there.
1: Max download speed
2: Max upload speed
3: Average bandwidth usage while hosting your game
4: Do you have any lanners, family members, anything of that nature.
5: What type of connection do you have. (DSL, Cable, Fiber, etc)
6: What company provides your internet.
7: Do they guarantee the bandwidth they offer you? Public service companies (usually if an ISP is the only high speed internet in the area they have to do this) guarantee the speed, whereas others do not.
In response to AJX (#3)
AJX wrote:
And who is going to pay for this? .... Sorry but that is a terrible idea. If you want to do this, go set up a slicehost.

The BYOND Staff? A dedicated section setup for donations to this server? Someone rich from the community? I dunno, put the idea into play and I'm sure it will easily be taken care of. And Slicehost sucks, as do all the other commonly known/used hosts around here, as I already said.

The only lag issue I've heard discussed that is actually valid is the issue with outside connection forcing 2 ticks in delay before refreshing map displays.

Well you should open your ears, or your eyes, or whatever you use for "hearing" on BYOND. Lag is one of, if not the biggest issue around here when it comes to getting a decent game going. I don't think I've ever once been on a game with say 20+ people and not heard somebody whining about lag.

Back in the day a friend of mine hosted a game that hit 120+ people with no lag problems. I figure your issues are with your bandwidth limits not BYOND. If you really want to get to the base of your network problems I'd suggest a few things...
First: Get a TCP/IP monitoring program. This is the first free one I found while googling. http://sourceforge.net/projects/freemeter/

Yes, my 100mb connection is lagging, obviously. Not only have I been over this on countless occasions, but I'm not even referring to my systems here.
I have no problems on my server, the 1000 noobs hosting zeta rip 90,000 do, that's why I'm saying we should give the competent games a decent place to host, then instead of having those 90,000 games lagging with 5 people in them; we could have a few good games full of people. The way it should be.
In response to Falacy (#4)
Yeah, the BYOND staff should host games for the players! Infact, screw making games! They should make the games for me!

And way to be a sarcastic nitwit with that "Well you should open your ears, or your eyes, or whatever you use for "hearing" on BYOND" comment.

And HMMM... Lag on an ONLINE game can go both ways. Either from the server, or the PLAYER. Someone who thrives on his illegal donations probably wouldn't know that.
In response to Vic Rattlehead (#5)
Vic Rattlehead wrote:
Yeah, the BYOND staff should host games for the players! Infact, screw making games! They should make the games for me!

They shouldn't make the games, though if they had a few it probably wouldn't hurt. Just look at Valve/Steam, they're basically a more professional, more expansive, better version of BYOND.

And HMMM... Lag on an ONLINE game can go both ways. Either from the server, or the PLAYER. Someone who thrives on his illegal donations probably wouldn't know that.

Wow, those were the most completely relevantly, directly related 2 sentences I've ever seen in my entire life... oh wait? What do those 2 things have to do with each other in any possible way? Go be retarded somewhere else, thanks.

Good job contributing absolutely nothing to the topic. You can pick up your cookie on the way out.
In response to Falacy (#4)
Falacy wrote:
AJX wrote:
And who is going to pay for this? .... Sorry but that is a terrible idea. If you want to do this, go set up a slicehost.

The BYOND Staff? A dedicated section setup for donations to this server? Someone rich from the community? I dunno, put the idea into play and I'm sure it will easily be taken care of. And Slicehost sucks, as do all the other commonly known/used hosts around here, as I already said.

The BYOND staff already doesn't make enough money for the work they do... Why would they pay more for something that is the game maker's responsibility?

The only lag issue I've heard discussed that is actually valid is the issue with outside connection forcing 2 ticks in delay before refreshing map displays.

Well you should open your ears, or your eyes, or whatever you use for "hearing" on BYOND. Lag is one of, if not the biggest issue around here when it comes to getting a decent game going. I don't think I've ever once been on a game with say 20+ people and not heard somebody whining about lag.

If you're lagging with 20 people you should probably reconsider hosting on a 256 kb connection.

Back in the day a friend of mine hosted a game that hit 120+ people with no lag problems. I figure your issues are with your bandwidth limits not BYOND. If you really want to get to the base of your network problems I'd suggest a few things...

Yes, my 100mb connection is lagging, obviously. Not only have I been over this on countless occasions but I'm not even referring to my systems here.

If you actually have a 100 mb connection with guaranteed pipe sizes that can't handle over 100 people then I'd be surprised. But mmkay.

First: Get a TCP/IP monitoring program. This is the first free one I found while googling. http://sourceforge.net/projects/freemeter/

I have no problems on my server, the 1000 noobs hosting zeta rip 90,000 do, that's why I'm saying we should give the competent games a decent place to host their games, then instead of having those 90,000 games lagging with 5 people in them we could have a few good games full of people. The way it should be.

That is funny, because the only person I see complaining about lag is in fact you, not these '1000 noobs' you are talking about.

Also, considering you really know nothing about networking, I don't think you should be arguing. Time and time again you make comments that are blatantly wrong, and even openly admit you have no clue what you're talking about. I was actually trying to offer you help, but if you feel it is necessary to be a jackass, then by all means, keep it up.
In response to AJX (#7)
AJX wrote:
The BYOND staff already doesn't make enough money for the work they do... Why would they pay more for something that is the game maker's responsibility?

They want more players. Offering better servers, of the better games, would bring more players. More players, especially more players enjoying their experience, would bring more money. As I said, the server I currently rent is the best investment I've made as far as BYOND game making goes.

If you're lagging with 20 people you should probably reconsider hosting on a 256 kb connection.
If you actually have a 100 mb connection with guaranteed pipe sizes that can't handle over 100 people then I'd be surprised. But mmkay.

Apparently you're still having trouble understanding that I'm not referring to my own systems in this topic, even though I blatantly said just that in my last response o.O

That is funny, because the only person I see complaining about lag is in fact you, not these '1000 noobs' you are talking about.

Do you even play any games on BYOND o.O I rarely play any and even I've seen the widespread community lag concerns/complaints.

Also, considering you really know nothing about networking, I don't think you should be arguing. Time and time again you make comments that are blatantly wrong, and even openly admit you have no clue what you're talking about. I was actually trying to offer you help, but if you feel it is necessary to be a jackass, then by all means, keep it up.

You offered me some program (which I tried). I see no reason why these programs would be needed, they provide near exact results to the built-in windows network manager. It also provided absolutely no reasoning for anything. It reported usages between 25 and 50 kbps, of which my server can far surpass.
Speed test results at the time of this posting: http://www.speedtest.net/result/546522912.png
In response to Falacy (#8)
You keep mentioning this amazing server your renting and fail to mention names - more BS to call on.

You hardly play BYOND but know all the games are laggy? It certainly isn't the people using bad computers/internet/downloading/all three. Yeah, YOU are right, now and forever, you're never wrong.

And I find your speedtest really, REALLY unbelieveable. Do you pay like, 100$ a month for your internet?
In response to Falacy (#4)
Falacy wrote:
A shared server that can be freely used by certain competent game makers.(...) The server I rent is (...) ridiculously expensive; so having one that could be shared by the high points of the community would be nice.

Falacy wrote:
AJX wrote:
And who is going to pay for this?

The BYOND Staff? A dedicated section setup for donations to this server? Someone rich from the community? I dunno, put the idea into play and I'm sure it will easily be taken care of.

I see multiple problems with the idea, even though I like the abilities that would come with it's realization.
As mentioned by AJX, I am not exactly convinced on the funding behind such a project.
I have serious doubt that BYOND could easily afford this, not to mention the copyright issues that might develop from there.
If there were to be donations, I'd gladly put up my share, yet, seeing the reaction of most everyone on BYOND when money is concerned, I struggle to believe in success.
Not to mention that there seem to be very few rather rich people around the community that would like to pull this off.

But like I said, if you are willing to try and pull this off, I'd say, sure, go for it.
Just don't forget about what happened to digitalBYOND.

Now for a less monetary issue.
Who is a 'competent game maker'? And even worse, who decides on the actual implementation of this?
How much resources does each project get?


Falacy wrote:
Most of the hosting services that are known/used by people around here completely suck.

How so? If you go with such a claim, you might as well be a bit more specific on this, by providing facts and details.


Falacy wrote:
There should also be strict regulations on any new hub entries added, to cut down on the addition of yet more pointlessly idiotic clones, but the staff are unwilling to put forth any effort in that area.

There actually has been some step into this direction by enabling the community to mark certain games as rip.
In response to Vic Rattlehead (#9)
Vic Rattlehead wrote:
You keep mentioning this amazing server your renting and fail to mention names - more BS to call on.
And I find your speedtest really, REALLY unbelieveable. Do you pay like, 100$ a month for your internet?

I rent a dedicated server from The Planet. I believe I have a modified xeon 3060, but don't quote me on that, its been a while since I got it.

...Yeah, YOU are right, now and forever, you're never wrong.

Glad we all agree =P
In response to Falacy (#8)
Falacy wrote:
AJX wrote:
The BYOND staff already doesn't make enough money for the work they do... Why would they pay more for something that is the game maker's responsibility?

They want more players. Offering better servers, of the better games, would bring more players. More players, especially more players enjoying their experience, would bring more money.

As developers would be hand-picked for this project, you could very well enforce some 'encouragement' on your players here.
For example, by providing each game with a soft limit on players. After passing that limit, only BYOND members can join (best going hand in hand with other member only features).
Now if you manage to convince these players that it is in their interest to order their membership with you as referral, I think you might manage to haggle on some sort of funding from Tom (e.g. 0.5-1$ per BYOND member ordering through you, being cashed out monthly, to avoid high micro payment fees).
In response to Schnitzelnagler (#10)
Schnitzelnagler wrote:
I see multiple problems with the idea, even though I like the abilities that would come with it's realization.
As mentioned by AJX, I am not exactly convinced on the funding behind such a project.

I could probably fund such a project. However there would be no kickback for me, and without things heavily implemented the way I want them it would basically just be throwing money out the window. The main problem is, without 110% backing from BYOND (staff) it would be pretty pointless. If the hub is still running rampant with rips, no repercussions for stealing, spamming, lieing; then even with the better games propelled to the front it wont accomplish as much as it could.

I have serious doubt that BYOND could easily afford this, not to mention the copyright issues that might develop from there.

lol BYOND in its existence is a copyright issue, I don't think there's much anyone could do to further that by much.

But like I said, if you are willing to try and pull this off, I'd say, sure, go for it.
Just don't forget about what happened to digitalBYOND.

digitalBYOND was a poorly managed service from every angle, I used to use it.

Now for a less monetary issue.
Who is a 'competent game maker'? And even worse, who decides on the actual implementation of this?

As supreme ruler and smartest man in the universe; clearly I would be in charge of such decisions =P

How much resources does each project get?

I see no reason to put limitations on any of them. Unless one is using insanely excessive resources. I currently host multiple servers of multiple BYOND games on my server and haven't had any issues. Neither CPU usage nor /sec bandwidth ever come anywhere close to max.

How so? If you go with such a claim, you might as well be a bit more specific on this, by providing facts and details.

Most of these services offer what you pay for. Their 5 dollar price tag isn't bad of course, but what you get what you pay for; and that isn't even worth having. Most, if not all of them, are shared servers, running a non-windows OS, with low speeds/ram/storage/bandwidth/etc.

There actually has been some step into this direction by enabling the community to mark certain games as rip.

Yes, though I've never actually seen anything happen to these rips, unless all the rips are just somehow being voted as non-rips. Which either way wouldn't really surprise me.
In response to Falacy (#11)
ITT: Spoiled rich kid that gets illegal donations bragging about wasting hundreds of dollars a month to support his illegal donations.

Also, nice way to COMPLETELY AVOID THE INTERNET QUESTION. You answered the server, yet not your internet. Which, by the way, is rather freaking unbelievable.
In response to Vic Rattlehead (#14)
Vic Rattlehead wrote:
ITT: Spoiled rich kid that gets illegal donations bragging about wasting hundreds of dollars a month to support his illegal donations.

I could make more money working at McDonalds than I do from my illegal donations. So I wouldn't exactly call me rich. But I still live at home like a loser, so I don't have to spend much money =P

Also, nice way to COMPLETELY AVOID THE INTERNET QUESTION. You answered the server, yet not your internet. Which, by the way, is rather freaking unbelievable.

I wasn't avoiding anything, the internet in question would be on/through the server, which I more or less posted a link to. Its a dedicated 100/100 line. My home internet is only a 10/1 connection, but I don't use that for hosting (usually), and its more than enough for playing games lag-free.
In response to Falacy (#15)
Care to explain how you rent internet online?
Contradictions roam rampant in those three words alone.

Oh, and thanks for admitting your donations are illegal. =P
In response to Vic Rattlehead (#16)
Vic Rattlehead wrote:
Care to explain how you rent internet online?
Contradictions roam rampant in those three words alone.

Are you even reading my posts o.O [link]

Oh, and thanks for admitting your donations are illegal. =P

We all know they're illegal. I just keep them not legal enough to not get sued =P Though really I doubt anyone (who matters) even cares.
In response to Falacy (#17)
How do you keep something "not legal enough" to not get sued? Stop speaking in cryptanese.

Oh, and for your ID linking game: "...the internet in question would be on/through the server, which I more or less posted a link to. Its a dedicated 100/100 line." <-- You.

Hmm, sounds ALOT like your renting internet right there.
In response to Vic Rattlehead (#18)
Vic Rattlehead wrote:
Oh, and for your ID linking game: "...the internet in question would be on/through the server, which I more or less posted a link to. Its a dedicated 100/100 line." <-- You.
Hmm, sounds ALOT like your renting internet right there.

I am, more or less. I'm renting a dedicated (shell) server, the server is obviously connected to the internet.
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