PirateHead wrote:
[insert generalization about proprietary software here?] It's amazing that [...] ...anytime I open a post by PirateHead, I know there will be some generalization about proprietary software, or at least some supporting thesis on the world of open-source. :) Tom wrote: This whole topic is one giant insult. Heck, I'm insulted, and I'm not even part of the staff---I'm just a lowly developer that's managed to linger around BYOND for the past 6 years! Hiead | |
There is a lot of pessimism about BYOND on these forums lately. The things that are being complained about are ridiculous.
Latoma wrote: Let's view [the] "facts": Never had a problem with getting the help I needed. 2: It's been what, 4 or 5 months since we had a Version update and we just seemingly got one recently?(The second clause contradicts the first) So do something with what you have now. The software we have now is more than capable of creating wonderful games. Updates are not going to improve the quality of games made or the community at large. Sure, there are some bugs, but so what? Work on something else. 3: Instead of correcting things like the server connection programming, which has plenty of bugs (e.g. The whole "Cannot Connect to Byond Server" today), and massive bugs (e.g. The one which prevents games from getting past like the 10th command input), they insist on cosmetic or minor upgrades. I have never had any major problems with connecting. Once in a blue moon it’s down, but oh well, I have plenty of books to read. I could name more, but I may begin to look stupid.I am sure I underestimate your ability to find things to complain about. Overall, this is one of the best run online communities there are. Sure, there are problems, but the staff has done a great job of keeping everything civil. | |
Lummox JR wrote:
Latoma wrote: I admit this was unfounded and I admit I was stupid, hence why I haven't posted since I did, I was just pissed off cause of the whole Byond was crashed thing (which *gasp to my annoyance* IS HAPPENING AGAIN!) which is now occuring two days in a row :S 3: Instead of correcting things like the server connection programming, which has plenty of bugs (IE: The whole "Cannot Connect to Byond Server" today) and massive bugs (IE: The one which prevents games from getting past like the 10th command input), they insist on cosmetic or minor upgrades. The "cannot connect to BYOND server" thing is probably not a software issue, but a server issue. We deal with these things whenever they come up, as best we can. As for the input thing you're talking about... what the heck are you talking about? I don't recall seeing such a bug report, and for all I know it's an issue with a particular game. PS: I am sure it's the server, but it's getting damn annoying now doing it two days in a row, it's like ya'll are hosting Byond on Byond's Dream Daemon :S (Duel Monsters Unlimited Players get the idea). Still there is the problem from the mysterious crashes from inputs. There's been 2 topics about this over time which were completely waysided because they were mysteriously unnoticed by most, and others considered it bad practices on the coder(s). http://www.byond.com/developer/forum?id=611076 <<< Went completely unnoticed before. http://www.byond.com/developer/forum?id=607863&display=1 This program has been haunting me and my coder for months now, and we basically had to abandon the game because we couldn't fix it period. There's no In-Programming errors (I had a copy of the source myself and it showed no errors). It gave no warnings in game, it just crashed out of thin air. This was the reason we both basically gave up on the "Next Great Game(s)", because Byond Crashed on us when we were making one of them. This bug has existed for 2 months now, and there's absolutely no signs of any errors suggesting that it's his coding practices. | |
Latoma wrote:
Let's view facts: Just so you know, it's only a fact if there is some truth to it. 1: The Staff are never easy to obtain to discuss problems, and when they are, they seem AFK. I've never had a problem with being able to contact them. Pager, email, support forum and forums are just a few ways to talk to them. Hell, I have one on my MSN Messenger list. 2: It's been what, 4, 5 months since we had a Version update and we just seemingly got one recently? And in that time we've seen major revamps on the website and member usability. But I suppose, those two things can't possibly have anything to do with eachother. How ignorant of me. 3: Instead of correcting things like the server connection programming, which has plenty of bugs (IE: The whole "Cannot Connect to Byond Server" today) and massive bugs (IE: The one which prevents games from getting past like the 10th command input), they insist on cosmetic or minor upgrades. Yep, such a bug in the software alright. Considering the large majority of the user-base doesn't receive it, it totally must be the software itself. Can't have anything to do with firewalls, routers and other little things which stop outside connection to a users computer, no sir. I could name more, but It might begin looking stupid. It already has sir, it already has. | |
Just because a game compiles properly does not mean it is programmed properly. I have had many things hosted with DreamDaemon with no problems at all. Blame the source on this one.
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Baladin wrote:
Just because a game compiles properly does not mean it is programmed properly. I have had many things hosted with DreamDaemon with no problems at all. Blame the source on this one. *Points to the Links he posted* How about you look before you talk. Those aren't Run Time Errors/Error Reports based on my end, those are errors being reported about the Byond itself. | |
Latoma wrote:
Baladin wrote: Lalala - They didn't go unnoticed. | |
Tiberath wrote:
Latoma wrote: That isn't my friend's topic now is it? Regardless Kakashi himself said (see 2nd link) that if the staff wanted he'd give them to source to use to debug or whatever. You sir are overly crass towards me over something I admit was done in a fit of rage. You can stop being a jerk now. | |
Break it up? This is starting to turn into one big flame post.
-- Data | |
Android Data wrote:
Break it up? This is starting to turn into one big flame post. Why do you think I deleted the original post. Now I'm trying to explain myself TO LUMMOX (who is the only person who's opinion about this really matters IMHO, other than Mike or Tom's) and they're trying to continue with it since the main source was erased :S | |
I wouldn't mind the thread ending as well, but in the future you may wish to avoid erasing. People reading the new posts are not going to look up to notice. Plus, it tends to look more like a temper tantrum than a desire to let the situation pass. (I'm not saying it was. It's just that the appearance can provoke flames.)
Besides, public threads rarely need the original post to continue arguments. ;) | |
ACWraith wrote:
I wouldn't mind the thread ending as well, but in the future you may wish to avoid erasing. People reading the new posts are not going to look up to notice. Plus, it tends to look more like a temper tantrum than a desire to let the situation pass. (I'm not saying it was. It's just that the appearance can provoke flames.) Sadly enough true, at least it's now prompted a discussion between me and Lummox. Maybe it will end up beneficial. | |
Latoma wrote:
I admit this was unfounded and I admit I was stupid, hence why I haven't posted since I did, I was just pissed off cause of the whole Byond was crashed thing (which *gasp to my annoyance* IS HAPPENING AGAIN!) which is now occuring two days in a row :S Problems with the hub don't make us any happier than they make you. We've had some kind of recurring issue there that is worrying, but it hasn't been tracked down yet. PS: I am sure it's the server, but it's getting damn annoying now doing it two days in a row, it's like ya'll are hosting Byond on Byond's Dream Daemon :S (Duel Monsters Unlimited Players get the idea). Still there is the problem from the mysterious crashes from inputs. There's been 2 topics about this over time which were completely waysided because they were mysteriously unnoticed by most, and others considered it bad practices on the coder(s). Neither of those threads said that using input() about 10 times or so directly causes a crash. In both cases input() seems to be possibly connected to the crash yet could be entirely tangential to the real problem. In both threads the crash was said to be intermittent. Those are hard bugs to find on a good day; and neither report was crystal clear, although I think he did his best to give us all the details he could. Intermittent bugs are notoriously nasty to fix. This program has been haunting me and my coder for months now, and we basically had to abandon the game because we couldn't fix it period. There's no In-Programming errors (I had a copy of the source myself and it showed no errors). It gave no warnings in game, it just crashed out of thin air. This was the reason we both basically gave up on the "Next Great Game(s)", because Byond Crashed on us when we were making one of them. This bug has existed for 2 months now, and there's absolutely no signs of any errors suggesting that it's his coding practices. During that time we've been scrambling to get the updated site online, keep it running (when it was still on DreamHost), debug new issues that arose from the change, and accommodate feature requests that users have pegged as urgent or important. It's not that we don't care about such a bug, but that we haven't been working on the software for a bit. It's not really feasible to keep switching between the software and the site. But if you're convinced input() was your problem, why didn't you try a workaround? BYOND's browse() proc and new interface-based techniques are both good alternatives. Lummox JR | |
Baladin does have a point there. That's not to say there is no BYOND bug, because clearly under no circumstances should it be crashing, but the fact that some games seem to experience this a lot while others never do would indicate that something about those games is the problem.
It might help you to develop an alternative to input() that you can hot-switch in and out by changing a couple of procs. If you're convinced input() is the source of your problem, then replacing it entirely should logically fix that problem. That kind of info helps us, too, when we try to debug, because knowing the issue is confined to a certain proc call generally makes it much easier to track down. Lummox JR | |
If I remember correctly, Mecha Destroyer JD fixed it in one of his games by using HTML input instead. Can't remember for sure, so you'll have to ask him.
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Jamesburrow wrote:
If I remember correctly, Mecha Destroyer JD fixed it in one of his games by using HTML input instead. Can't remember for sure, so you'll have to ask him. I've had a input bug before? 0_0 | |
He did? Not on his own blog, I'd imagine, since there hasn't been a post since '06..and it certainly doesn't mention this. Anything before that would be far from recent, heh. :P
Hiead