ID:1903742
 Jul 25 2015, 1:07 am
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I wanted to know what games on BYOND have the most indepth combat? Or in other words, what games push the limits of how much BYOND can handle for combat? I'm looking for something that is the closest to an actual fight in the game's realm of realism. My guess would be SS13 due to the possible body part damage and the limb dismemberment, but is there anything else near that? I wanted an idea of what's the most I can program combat wise for BYOND for the fictional games we can make. Is sidestepping or dashing to the side possible? Is it possible to be hit during either of those? That's what I'm wondering. A real fight wouldn't involve standing in one place and punching until someone falls. It would involve on the fly planning, dodging, and reevaluating the situation if necessary. Your thoughts?
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SS13 excels greatly at having a vast variety of ways you can take damage from other people. However does that constitute realism or reflect actual combat complexity?
Realism? A common melee combat scenario will have you running towards your enemy to get a hit and then running away from them until you can hit again. Melee combat looks clunky and is often a battle of who has the best ping. A common ranged combat scenario will have you chasing down people who are running from you at ridiculous speed and zig zagging all over. Your shots will glide between tiles taking an indirect route to the target. Ranged combat is clunky too. Finally it's nigh on impossible to understand large combat scenarios because a large portion of combat information is output via TEXT. You could be in a room full of 5 people and 3 have attacked you. 3 seperate "[someone] attacked [someone]" messages come up and you've somehow got to remember all the people's names and try to work out who exactly attacked you. So in my opinion SS13 combat is overall, clunky, difficult to follow and unrealistic. Combat Complexity? We've stated that there are many different ways you can hurt someone in the game but actually you almost only ever choose one possible way and just keep repeating it until your opponent succumbs to their injuries or you do. E.g you're not going to attack different locations on a body usually. Instead you'll pick one (usually the head) which you think will do the best damage and stick with it. You certainly won't switch weapons unless you've run out of ammo either. So actually combat is as simple usually as "keep clicking till it's dead and hope you read all the output right and aren't currently killing the only person on the station trying to help you." My Conclusion In my opinion SS13 has possibly the worst combat of any game on BYOND. It however does have many highly interesting ways of destroying your enemies like planting a bomb in their office. That's what makes it fun. Mechanically though the melee and ranged combat are abominations that need to be killed with fire. | |
I think my combat goes a bit in depth. I have a guard and break mechanic. Add that with all the armour perks, standard perks, and class abilities i believe it gets pretty engaging.
Though I'm 100% bias. And also space stations combat ain't great at all. The combat your speaking of is hard to design not to program. Like what do you even mean? Would this even be fun? That's where your going to have the problem. Byond can do anything you imagine as long as it's 2d P.s. Most real fights don't happen that way. It ussually ends in 1 punch. Life isn't anime. So yea a REAL fight as you so put it would be like this. "Punch. Die. Done" it's not hard to even kill someone in real life with one punch and there is tons of cases of it | |
In the game I've developing at the moment I have multiple body part damage, I also have the option to block or parry based on the characters proficiency in each of these. You can end up brain damaged, have a stomach tear and cough up blood, get your nose broken and be temporarily blinded via a bright flash that takes up the victim's screen. I'm even putting in multiple fighting styles that add more combative options so you don't just hold the "attack" verb down.
All the things you suggested are also certainly doable, but they must be implemented well. In short, a game's combative potential correlates directly with the creator's ability. | |
Skyrim had some awesome combat.
Is the enemy within melee range? Smack it with a sword until it dies. Is it the enemy a short distance away? Shoot fire at it until it dies. Is the enemy very far away? Shoot arrows at it until it dies. 10/10 combat, would play again. | |
Dwarf Fortress has the best combat. When you have dwarves stopping arrows with their TEETH you know they're a boss.
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Well, an example in Pondera is Stealth.
Should you light that torch so you can see better at night? Are you playing PVP? Yes? You should probably sneak around at night instead of being a bright spotlight for all to see! :) Should you walk into that ditch, probably not. It can be logical without being what people describe as "realistic" (which makes one think about the world in which we live, which doesn't necessarily mean "real/"realistic" it is just what WE know/what is real to us!). It can be fun and logical without playing to that [realistic] tag that gets so much hate. | |
I personally just don't get the fascination with making any part of a game hyper realistic. Your goal should be to make it fun first and realistic second. Realistic combat is very difficult to portray, because even if you get it 100% right, there's only so much you can do with a 2D engine, or any game engine for that matter.
Many people here on the forums, including myself, have many types of combat training and martial arts and I'm sure any of them can attest to the difficulty of mapping out every action or tactic one might use in a fight. In a standing fight for example, do I go for a straight jab? Maybe a hook, what if I'm not going for a punch but a brachial strike to knock you out? What if I'm specifically targeting your orbital bone to cause maximum pain? Maybe I'm not going for your face. What about a kick to the perineal nerve to weaken your stance so I can shoot in for a hip throw and pull you into an armbar? Or better yet, I just set up a mount and start beating the shit out of you. My point is that making it "realistic" isn't realistic at all. When it comes to accurately describing the nuances of combat, you either cover every detail explicitly and risk your game's learning curve being too high for most players or you dumb down the combat to a more fun level at the expense of being called "unrealistic". | |
I agree, fun over realism but that doesn't mean count out logic!
@post below - Yes but as a species outside of games we all tend to agree on a certain set of logic that applies to the world into which we live. Of course I am not talking about fantasy, where you can make your own logic. I am merely referencing the logical physics/processes that we humans are use to when we speak of things such as "realism". | |
BYOND is capable of having just about any 2D fighting mechanic you can think of - it's just up to the developers of a game to actually add them in.