So you tell me Byond, where do I find mappers? Reddit?
Byond's Gangsta
ID:1923104
 Aug 22 2015, 7:03 pm
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Apparently classified ads isnt where you find people these days. So just where do I get my hand on a paid mapper. Cause I got like 4 programmer's breathing down my neck now about being paid for some work. But can't find any mappers up to the Job. Most of them have just up and said the job is either too difficult or not responded back to me.
So you tell me Byond, where do I find mappers? Reddit? | |
Mapping isn't a skill and it isn't hard do it urself ?
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Mapping isn't a skill Wat? | |
Ter13 wrote:
Mapping isn't a skill I don't consider creating a map a skill... Anyone can map and aslong as u have common sense and good lane flow it'll be good a good map | |
I disagree.
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/018/6/2/ Pallet_Town_by_CaptainArcane.jpg http://orig00.deviantart.net/851f/f/2009/018/8/2/ route_1_by_captainarcane.jpg http://orig15.deviantart.net/4af9/f/2009/018/2/c/ route_2_by_captainarcane.jpg http://orig08.deviantart.net/683b/f/2009/018/b/5/ route_3_by_captainarcane.jpg The guy who made these maps wasn't actually all that bad at environment design. The trouble is that he didn't understand his medium. The sheer size of these maps combined with the gameplay mechanics of pokemon itself just make the maps completely retardedly oversized for not good reason. Route 1 is a mile and a half of Pidgeys and Rattata. Why in god's name do I want to walk through ten minutes of a zone that's completely worthless to me except as a source of the two worst pokemon in the game? There's nothing wrong with each individual segment of these maps. However, when taken as a whole, they demonstrate a serious lack of understanding of repeatable themes, space usage, and purpose. Environment design is a real thing that takes skill and a full understanding of the game you are making environments for to really excel at. Otherwise you wind up with visually well-executed map design being functionally worthless because the artist didn't understand the way that players would interact with the space they are creating. There's at least something to be said for people that have the patience and understanding for designing good maps. | |
I'm too lazy to map the game myself. Sure I could, but why not pay someone to do it for me instead. Too bad I can't find anyone to PAY to do it <.<
Byond's Gangsta | |
First of all, don't ever use Pidgey's name in vain like that. Pidgey was my strongest Pokeman I ever did raise. I watched him grow from a peon Pidgey, to intermediate Pidgeotto, all the way to Arch Bishop Pidgeot. He flew me all over Kanto wherever I needed to go. He was by my side during battles with my rival. He stood in my corner when my back was against the wall against the Elite Four. Rest in pieces my little Pidgey, your loyalty won't be lost in the sands of time, never shall I forsake thy kindness.
 Secondly of all, the reason why Route 1 had Pidgey ( as well as there being a Spearow in Route 22 ) is because the player is tasked with running through a zone full of random encounters and trainer battles against bug Pokemans. Bird Pokemans are super effective against bug Pokemans, and you will need a flying Pokeman with you 80% of the game so you can travel throughout the game conveniently using Fly, so it makes perfect sense to steer the player into catching a flying-type early on in the game, and then providing the player with a zone in which it can easily gather a crap ton of experience. Rattata is indeed a weak Pokemans, however he is located on Route 1, which is the area you begin the game in. Why on Earth would they put the game's most valuable Pokemans in Route 1? Did you expect to run into Mewtwo a few minutes upon beginning the game? Did you want a wild Dragonite to appear? YOU WANT GYARADOS IN THE FIRST ROUTE, BROSKI??? | |
Those maps you posted suck. They're big, empty and pretty damned boring.
Here is an example of a map using similar resources that is actually much better designed. http://i.imgur.com/uoloshb.png Anyway, making a map is basically an art form. It's something you have to learn and something most people just never bother to. But here are a few basic pointers. Before you even begin to make a map, you need to think about what the map you're making is and what it's going to be used for. If you can't even do this, your final map will end up in one of two ways. A bunch of rooms connected by corridors, or an open field with random details littered around it. Once you've got an idea, it's time to do some research. Most people have never been to a lot of locations. I've never been inside of a cave, or to a volcano, and I've been to only a few small cities. How can I be expected to make these if I don't even know what they're suppose to look like? Next you need to lay a foundation. You need to plan out the large picture and figure out roughly what will go where. If you want to make a town, you do not start by adding random buildings and hope it'll work out somehow. You figure out roughly how the towns layout will be, maybe it'll have districts and you'll plan where each district is, it's size and shape. If you're making a dungeon, all you're going to have is something like a route players will be able to take. Maybe there will be a puzzle here, and a dead end over there. Once you've got a foundation, it's time to build on it. At this point you don't even have a playable map, so your objective is to make it at the very minimal playable. Your town probably has a bunch of markers saying this goes here, and that goes there. It's time to actually put the buildings in place. You should be making it so your dungeon has a clearly defined floor and walls. Once you've done this, you have a skeleton. At this point it should still be easy to chop and change things, so make sure you are absolutely happy with what you have, because from here on out it's going to get harder to change. Next you flesh out your skeleton. You need to spruce the basic layout of your map up basically and make it less boring. You've got a town, it has buildings. Think about what each of those buildings are, and then add to them or their immediate surrounding area. If it's a house, maybe it's got a garden, so section of an area with a fence. If your town is on a hill or cliff, maybe add some elevation levels to it. We are NOT adding minor details at this point. We're taking a basic layout and making it more complex. Anyway, after doing this, you start by adding functional details. For a town, this is NPCs, for things like dungeons this would be puzzles. Now is the time to add them (designing good puzzles is something entirely different). If parts of a dungeon require unlocking, now is the time to lock them and add a switch somewhere to open the locked door. Essentially, this is anything the player can interact with, especially if the players interaction can change the layout of the map (such as opening/closing a door). Next we add minor details. In most cases this is the finishing touch. You've got a town with houses, gardens, walls and so on. But you need to make it look like people live in the town. This means adding things like trees, plants and even weeds to areas. Maybe some houses are old, and are damages, maybe they have something as simple as closed curtains. Those gardens maybe need things like washing lines. Shops might have signs and be displaying goods outside. The town it's self might have benches, street lamps and other decorative features. The same applies to your dungeons. Maybe some walls are damaged and collapsed, maybe it's got ominous looking statues around, or old lamps on the walls and so on. At this point, you probably have a map you could pass off as finished. But you can do better. If we're in a town, the most obvious thing to consider is that we are outside. There is a sun and it will shine down on things, making some areas lighter, while leaving some in shade. So add some shadows to things, maybe even add shadows to the clouds! Now let's say this town is on a cliff, we're going to see things like birds and bugs, so make birds fly overhead and add some butterflies or something. If you want to go wild, make it so birds land, and fly away when you get close. If there is a house, with a chimney and it's cold, add some smoke to the chimney! If you're in a dungeon, maybe it's ancient and no ones been here for centuries. Add some cobwebs and make the place look old. Maybe these cobwebs break when the player walks through them. If it's a dark dungeon, add some lights and shadows to it. And the final things is what you do not see. If you are in a town, it's got people. You can hear them. So why can't I hear them in most games? If this town is on a cliff, I'll also be able to hear the wind, the trees and the birds. If I'm in a dungeon, it's old and maybe the floor will creak when I walk over it. If it's lit by torch light, I should be able to hear the flames crackling and burning. Sound is a powerful tool and you need to use it. Once you've done all that, maybe, just maybe you have a good map that is enjoyable to play. As a rough estimate, if you're working on a 100x100 map, it should take you a minimum of 12 hours to make this map (excluding any programming related to interactions such as NPCs and dungeons), but working on it for 20+ hours is not unreasonable either. Anyway, here are some quick tips that everyone should always follow. Use an appropriate sized map. Bigger is not always better. Not only is it a major pain to make bigger maps (if it takes you 12 hours to make a 100x100 map, it'll take you 48 hours to make a 200x200 map), but from a players perspective, spending most of the time walking is just not fun. ALWAYS avoid empty space. If your map has empty space it means one of two things. Either it's too damned big, or the basic layout sucks. Empty space cannot be remedied by adding random details to try and hide it. It's always going to look bad. The only way to fix it is to change the maps design at a fundamental level. Avoid monotony. If you're making a map that is of something man made, it's probably going to be more uniform in nature. But you can always break up the monotony. If it's houses, make them different shapes, give them different coloured roofs, if we're working on a wall, if it's stone maybe it's got cracks in it, or moss growing on it, if it's wood maybe parts of the wood are discoloured or have a different grain. In nature, stuff is almost never monotonous. There will be lots of different types of grass in a small area, all of different lengths. Plants wont form into magically straight lines, they'll be spread randomly. A cave wall wont magically form into a straight line, it's going to be jagged and all over the place. Use elevation. Elevation is magical. It can take a flat and boring world, and make it into a seemingly deep and wonderful world to explore. Even if a player will never go to a specific part of a map, you need to design it in full. If the player can see even a tiny bit of it, you have to design it as you would the entire map. Having a little slice of the map empty and barren looks bad. And finally. You got to practice. Your first map will never be good, and anytime you see a game with good maps you can sure as hell bet the people who made it have made hundreds, if not thousands of other maps and been practicing their map making skills for a long time. | |
EmpirezTeam wrote:
Did you expect to run into Mewtwo a few minutes upon beginning the game? Did you want a wild Dragonite to appear? YOU WANT GYARADOS IN THE FIRST ROUTE, BROSKI??? Yes. | |
The Magic Man wrote:
Those maps you posted suck. They're big, empty and pretty damned boring. I think that's the point. | |
Magic the maps you showed could keep me entertained for all of 5 minutes.
I'd much rather spend hours travelling through the ones Ter posted. | |
Yea the ones Ter posted where much better lol the one magic posted looked like something I could do. Just place all the shit I got available for me on the map lol.
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If mapping isn't a skill then I can't do anything besides come up with concepts and ideas.
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The Magic Man wrote:
Those maps you posted suck. They're big, empty and pretty damned boring. Zecronious wrote: I'd much rather spend hours travelling through the ones Ter posted. Ganite wrote: Yea the ones Ter posted where much better lol the one magic posted looked like something I could do. Not a one of you read my post (except for Ghost of ET). I specifically used those maps as an example of bad mapping/maps that completely suck because the creator didn't understand the purpose of the map, rather than it just looking terrible. TMM, I know you never read ANYTHING that anyone else writes that's longer than a sentence. You do realize how stupid it is to not read what someone wrote, then "disagree" with them by reiterating their point, and do so in a manner that's 20 times as long as the post you are responding to? That's why I so brutally and thoroughly dismantle everything you have to say in every post where we interact, because I'm the only one of the two of us participating in the conversation. You are just talking to chairs.  | |
I read your post @Ter I was just saying the ones you posted where better.
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I was just saying the ones you posted where better. They aren't. They are visually appealing, but functionally completely antithetical to the style of game that Pokemon is. | |
Wish i knew how to map :c. Though i've never tried :]
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My guy is pretty good too...