The Month of Classics is going great -- Take 15, Reversi, and DragonSnot are all in playable states, and Guy's Cribbage looks to be coming along.
This is a really nice proof of BYOND:
Two weeks and two days after this even was proposed, we have three games in place and more on the way. That's just mind-boggling.
And I'll take a guess that the combined code of those games is a fraction of what it took to write that networked Bingo game in Java ("only 3,000 lines!").
Thanks to everyone participating (and to those not, you have a whole two weeks left which is clearly enough time!)
The other momentum thing I notice is how likely someone is to be on the BYOND-net. Seems like it's never long now before someone pages me with an offer to skip off to a game.
It's becoming a reality!
ID:194566
 Oct 23 2000, 6:52 am
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I haven't started my "classic" yet, but I have decided to do so this week. Be prepared to be astounded by my mediocrity! I'll try to lessen my shock... =) | |
The Month of Classics is going great -- Take 15, Reversi, and DragonSnot are all in playable states, and Guy's Cribbage looks to be coming along. Can't disagree with that logic (no, I'm not talking about Take 15 =). Maybe we could bug all the other people to release a quick game of some kind and to do it. I'm planning on making Stratego, Connect Four, and Backgammon as well, though I'd be happy to give those up if someone else took over that role! =) Two weeks and two days after this even was proposed, we have three games in place and more on the way. That's just mind-boggling. I figured out how to fix Reversi (in about 20 lines, even!). Expect one with proper error checking tonight, or if I can't get it done tonight (that's unlikely with only 20 lines... =), by tomorrow's GoB. Oh, and it'll check for wins too... forgot that detail. =) And I'll take a guess that the combined code of those games is a fraction of what it took to write that networked Bingo game in Java ("only 3,000 lines!"). The funniest thing I ever read was on a Java Stratego game... "only 10,000 lines of code made this game possible!". Hell, all of my games combined take up 10000 lines, and they have a hell of a lot more depth than just plain Stratego. =) It's becoming a reality! That it is. I can't wait to see what next month (Month of Spuzzum's Near-Forgotten Games) has in store! =) | |
On 10/23/00 2:18 pm Spuzzum wrote:
I can't wait to see what next month (Month of Spuzzum's Near-Forgotten Games) has in store! =) You know, all this talk of small programs that accomplish a lot makes me think that one good theme for next month (or one of these months) might be: "Coolest game under 100 lines of code." I bet we could crank out some really impressive stuff. Dibs on a Napster-clone for me. | |
You know, all this talk of small programs that accomplish a lot makes me think that one good theme for next month (or one of these months) might be: "Coolest game under 100 lines of code." Oh, wow, I'm not going to be able to stop thinking about this now... I think people might be able to cheat a little with semicolons and braces... absolute paths would be fair, though. This could encourage us all to get intimate with the instance editor, too! | |
On 10/23/00 9:05 pm Guy T. wrote:
I think people might be able to cheat a little with Another way to do it is to keep the binary under a certain size, so something like, "The coolest game that compiles under 16k!" - - | |
Another way to do it is to keep the binary under a certain size, so something like, "The coolest game that compiles under 16k!" Excellent idea. How about we aim for 4k (4096 bytes)? If memory serves, this was a common game size on the Atari 2600 and the VIC-20 (actually I think the VIC-20 may have been a hair under that). I was going to say it would be cheating if someone wrote an interpreter in the permitted 4k, and then used the rsc file to store huge code files... but on second thought, that would be pretty cool. :) | |
On 10/23/00 9:53 pm Guy T. wrote:
Another way to do it is to keep the binary under a certain size, so something like, "The coolest game that compiles under 16k!" I like it! 4K is gonna be tough! We should have a couple of contest categories. There's something clean about a contest based on the precompiled size (either #lines or #bytes), because telling someone that this program is only "10 lines long" just conveys an aura of simplicity even to the most unfamiliar programmers. Then again, telling them that the binary "fits on a floppy" (and that's a major overstatement!) is just as impressive these days! Of course, the VIC 20 die-hards might not quite value the purity of this contest, unless we can somehow port BYOND itself to that platform! | |
I like it! 4K is gonna be tough! We should have a couple of contest categories. There's something clean about a contest based on the precompiled size (either #lines or #bytes), because telling someone that this program is only "10 lines long" just conveys an aura of simplicity even to the most unfamiliar programmers. Then again, telling them that the binary "fits on a floppy" (and that's a major overstatement!) is just as impressive these days! I have a plan already! :) One question: I notice you mention precompiled size. It seems to me that it would be better to work off compiled size, since otherwise, people will be likely to create cryptic, commentless code that won't be useful as sample code for future DMs. The only disadvantages I can think of to using compiled size: 1) Size could change if the compiler changes. 2) You have to compile before finding out the size. But with a world of this size, compilation should take about 0.02 seconds. What do you think? Oh, also, some other ideas: 1) The DME file should count toward the total... otherwise people can cheat by sticking endless #defines in there! 2) How does the [edit: November 12] GoB sound for a deadline? 3) All games should have source code available... it can use the GPL, or contain your own license, or no license, or whatever you want, but the DM and DME files should be open to review. 4) Maybe there could be a special directory in the Hub that would recognize contestants and winners. That would save money on actual prizes! | |
On 10/24/00 5:31 am Guy T. wrote:
One question: I notice you mention precompiled size. It seems to me that it would be better to work off compiled size, since otherwise, people will be likely to create cryptic, commentless code that won't be useful as sample code for future DMs. Oh, to clarify, I just meant that we might want to have two different categories: one for smallest binary and one for smallest code (total lines in the DM files or something). The two categories would produce different flavors of code. For example, the compiled binary contest probably wouldn't allow you to include much of a map, since those get compiled into the DMB. On the other hand, you can probably write more code in 4K than in 100 lines, assuming we put some sort of formatting restriction to prevent semicolin abuse. We can ignore comments either way. Unlike, for instance, the International Obfuscated C Contest, the point of this should be to show how simple DM code is to both read and write, while doing some neat stuff to boot! Your other rules sound good to me. | |
Oh, to clarify, I just meant that we might want to have two different categories: one for smallest binary and one for smallest code (total lines in the DM files or something). The two categories would produce different flavors of code. For example, the compiled binary contest probably wouldn't allow you to include much of a map, since those get compiled into the DMB. On the other hand, you can probably write more code in 4K than in 100 lines, assuming we put some sort of formatting restriction to prevent semicolin abuse. We can ignore comments either way. Unlike, for instance, the International Obfuscated C Contest, the point of this should be to show how simple DM code is to both read and write, while doing some neat stuff to boot! That sounds good. I didn't think of the map issue. I guess, for all practical purposes, we may as well just say "4K" and let people interpret it in any reasonable way. Maybe we'd end up with ten different categories and a winner in each... :) | |
I should also mention that The Dream Maker is a great source of tips and tricks to help with this competition. :)
Just the look-up and look-down operators should help considerably... | |
On 10/23/00 2:18 pm Spuzzum wrote:
I'm planning on making Stratego, Connect Four, and Backgammon as well, though I'd be happy to give those up if someone else took over that role! =) I just learned backgammon this weekend, and I was considering making a BYOND version. Actually, yes, I think I'd like to do that. I'm not sure I could get it done this month, though. Oh, heck, I may as well try. By the way, my trip to NYC was great. I am 5% closer to wheedling my friend into using BYOND. The funniest thing I ever read was on a Java Stratego game... "only 10,000 lines of code made this game possible!". Well, I could see that, if a great AI were included. Uh... a REALLY great AI. Cerulea is still about 12,000 lines (about 50 of which are AI, now that I think of it). Z | |
This is good news. We should tell someone!
I haven't started my "classic" yet, but I have decided to do so this week. Be prepared to be astounded by my mediocrity!