This is going to take some getting used to.
I think I'm going to like the new layout. I already like not having to click 40 posts within a thread.

Also, to the people complaining about the charge for the HUB, it's $24 a YEAR. $2 a month is CHEAP advertisement for your project.
It looks like anyone who was using the blog forum for their game(s) had everything nuked in the transition.
Looks like so far. And there are still ways to advertise games without any hub. It might be trickier because it will be unpublished and require guessing of IP addresses for hosted servers, but I can see it still being possible to do.

Hubs just make it easier to access projects of course. I have gone to websites where there is no such convenience (which something BYOND does have). So, charging for hub creation (by membership) is not a bad idea. Plus, it might encourage new ideas to expand on a hubless concept. :D
I'm completely fine with the requirement of a membership to use hub entries. You say it's a lot, but there ARE alternatives to using BYOND's hub. Perfect example is Shadowdarke's DMCGI website for Darke Dungeon (here). Something like it is VERY easy to create.

But you know what the cost of something like that would be? Even with a $5/mo hosting plan or VPS, you'll be paying roughly $60/year when you could instead pay a measly $24/year to support BYOND and get a hub entry (or multiple).

If you're a serious game developer, you're going to initially go for the cheaper way (which is supporting an engine that you get for free) to get advertisements.

Also, it may also reduce the amount of work needed to PROPERLY advertise games (instead of having to filter through dozens of rip-offs) and increase chances of YOUR game becoming popular.

Some people really whine just to whine, and they use simple-minded arguments to back up their whining. I like this new site, and I'm all for the changes. One thing I agree with is Aaiko; this place needs a little more style/color.
In response to SuperAntx (#42)
SuperAntx wrote:
It looks like anyone who was using the blog forum for their game(s) had everything nuked in the transition.

Tom wrote:
Forum posts in the main developer & help forums are being moved over, but forum posts in existing sites/guilds will, unfortunately, be inaccessible after this update. We are not deleting them so theoretically we could import them later, but that's probably not going to happen. You can always contact me if you want an archive at a later date, though. The intention is to keep external forums limited to BYOND games/resources and have those done in the respective hub forums; general discussion can just go in the main forums (which we can expand as necessary).

Tom did give us warning that this would happen.

Overall, I was a bit confused as to what exactly was going to be contained in this update. Now that it is all said and done, I do like what I have seen so far.

As to having to be a Member to post a HUB entry, I have believed that something like that should have been in place for a while now. Yes, the initial change may annoy some people but in the long run, it should contribute greatly towards the growth and continuation of BYOND as a whole.

"Also, to the people complaining about the charge for the HUB, it's $24 a YEAR. $2 a month is CHEAP advertisement for your project."

herpaderp you can't pay in 2$ a month increments

It's paying FOR THE RIGHT TO ADVERTISE. The RIGHT. Actual advertisement? You still have to do that yourself.

It's either you should've been a member to make one from the get-go or not at all. This wasn't a smart decision and the ONLY people justifying it are the ones Teka spoonfeeds memberships to on a daily basis.

Also... how is this design modern? Proboards from the early 2000s had a more up-to-date design...
The only people mad are the ones who aren't developers.

Even if you were making sense ( you're not ), it doesn't look like Tom is changing anything. So you have two options:

1. Deal with it.
2. Find another game creation engine ( and good luck, because BYOND is pretty much the easiest one available )
In response to Moonlight Memento (#46)
Moonlight Memento wrote:
herpaderp you can't pay in 2$ a month increments

You missed the point there.

It's paying FOR THE RIGHT TO ADVERTISE. The RIGHT. Actual advertisement? You still have to do that yourself.

Your logic is flawed. BYOND hubs are not a requirement for advertisement. As others have mentioned, you can do this all on your own website. Now that a Flash client is going to be available, you could technically have people playing your games without even knowing exactly what BYOND is. At least some percentage of BYOND gamers might not even know what a BYOND hub is.

You do not need the BYOND hub to make a successful game.
Second easiest available.
I didn't read all the comments in this post because they started to bore me. The amount of whiny babies complaining about the HUB change, I honestly see why Tom should provide prime advertisement space on his website for free. A website doesn't run it's self and he must make money off it somehow(adverts or people paying for the right to use that space). If you cannot see the sense in this then you don't even deserve the right to a free hub if it was available to you, Which it isn't and won't be so stop moaning.

Rant over.
Moonlight Memento wrote:
It's paying FOR THE RIGHT TO ADVERTISE. The RIGHT. Actual advertisement? You still have to do that yourself.

It's either you should've been a member to make one from the get-go or not at all. This wasn't a smart decision and the ONLY people justifying it are the ones Teka spoonfeeds memberships to on a daily basis.


Being spoon-fed memberships by Teka on a daily basis? Well, I will not deny that Teka has renewed my membership in the past when my financial situation was dismal however that is not the reason why I am justifying this change. Going after Teka like that is rather rude. That is coming from me, who has had almost no contact with Teka directly over the years.

BYOND Memberships now have a truly useful purpose, whereas in the past, the features you gained by being a member were nice extras, they were just that.. extras. With the new structure, BYOND finally has the chance to actually profit, which is a chance that BYOND deserves after going this long operating for next to nothing.

You are complaining that you have to pay $24 a year to advertise your creation, I don't know where you are getting that information from, there are plenty of places around the internet to advertise things, many of them are free. What you get for your $24 is the ability to EASILY advertise your creation(s) to the mass of BYOND players that may actually be looking for a game like yours. This has been said over and over by several different people on this thread already, I don't understand why you find the concept so difficult.

In hindsight, there are several charitable people on BYOND, if you were to show off some amazing creation that truly belongs to you, I am sure that someone would buy you a Membership if you asked nicely, Heck, show me something nice that you have made and I will buy you one myself. That, or just ask nicely and we will see.

No one should be bashing Tom's attempt to finally make money off of the system that he and the other developers have worked so long for, making so little up until now. I for one find it extremely rude.
In response to SnipeDragon (#51)
SnipeDragon wrote:
No one should be bashing Tom's attempt to finally make money off of the system that he and the other developers have worked so long for, making so little up until now. I for one find it extremely rude.

Here here.

"Your logic is flawed. BYOND hubs are not a requirement for advertisement. As others have mentioned, you can do this all on your own website. Now that a Flash client is going to be available, you could technically have people playing your games without even knowing exactly what BYOND is. At least some percentage of BYOND gamers might not even know what a BYOND hub is.

You do not need the BYOND hub to make a successful game."

A Flash player? That will likely require some Flash knowledge. Oh yeah. It also requires me wanting to make my game browser-based, hoping it works with all browsers... yeaaah.

"The only people mad are the ones who aren't developers."

yupyup you're so perfect. by the way, you got a little stain on your nose.

"I didn't read all the comments in this post because they started to bore me. The amount of whiny babies complaining about the HUB change, I honestly see why Tom should provide prime advertisement space on his website for free. A website doesn't run it's self and he must make money off it somehow(adverts or people paying for the right to use that space). If you cannot see the sense in this then you don't even deserve the right to a free hub if it was available to you, Which it isn't and won't be so stop moaning.

Rant over."

It was free for 11 years. Why did it need to become pay to use?

"BYOND Memberships now have a truly useful purpose, whereas in the past, the features you gained by being a member were nice extras, they were just that.. extras. With the new structure, BYOND finally has the chance to actually profit, which is a chance that BYOND deserves after going this long operating for next to nothing."

Again, because you people can't read: To market a product, you don't take features away from the FREE version of the product and tack it onto the paid one. That's not marketing.

"there are plenty of places around the internet to advertise things"

Advertising a BYOND game? Hardly. I have to advertise the software, and the annoying methods of joining without the hub... at that point, get something that doesn't look like complete spyware and takes forever to play one game. Like the whole Open Location bull.

Here is it again for people who can't read.
To market a product, you don't take features away from the FREE version of the product and tack it onto the paid one. That's not marketing.
In response to Moonlight Memento (#53)
Moonlight Memento wrote:
"Your logic is flawed. BYOND hubs are not a requirement for advertisement. As others have mentioned, you can do this all on your own website. Now that a Flash client is going to be available, you could technically have people playing your games without even knowing exactly what BYOND is. At least some percentage of BYOND gamers might not even know what a BYOND hub is.

You do not need the BYOND hub to make a successful game."

A Flash player? That will likely require some Flash knowledge. Oh yeah. It also requires me wanting to make my game browser-based, hoping it works with all browsers... yeaaah.

"The only people mad are the ones who aren't developers."

yupyup you're so perfect. by the way, you got a little stain on your nose.

"I didn't read all the comments in this post because they started to bore me. The amount of whiny babies complaining about the HUB change, I honestly see why Tom should provide prime advertisement space on his website for free. A website doesn't run it's self and he must make money off it somehow(adverts or people paying for the right to use that space). If you cannot see the sense in this then you don't even deserve the right to a free hub if it was available to you, Which it isn't and won't be so stop moaning.

Rant over."

It was free for 11 years. Why did it need to become pay to use?

"BYOND Memberships now have a truly useful purpose, whereas in the past, the features you gained by being a member were nice extras, they were just that.. extras. With the new structure, BYOND finally has the chance to actually profit, which is a chance that BYOND deserves after going this long operating for next to nothing."

Again, because you people can't read: To market a product, you don't take features away from the FREE version of the product and tack it onto the paid one. That's not marketing.

"there are plenty of places around the internet to advertise things"

Advertising a BYOND game? Hardly. I have to advertise the software, and the annoying methods of joining without the hub... at that point, get something that doesn't look like complete spyware and takes forever to play one game. Like the whole Open Location bull.

Here is it again for people who can't read.
<big>To market a product, you don't take features away from the FREE version of the product and tack it onto the paid one. That's not marketing.</big>


I think we can agree that Byond made a mistake to give so much for free then if it wanted to stay alive without getting funding from elsewhere. But It's been very kind so we should be slightly appreciative right :)?

Anyway it needed to be a valid reason to pay for Byond memberships because without a change like this then Byond wouldn't be able to afford to keep going, So it made a choice in direction where to go to try and make people pay, without making any problems for people to still create games :)
In response to Teka123 (#55)
They've been kind with WHAT? Forcing us to pay 24$ for a feature that was free? There was NO need for that. Listing being members only was enough. Let alone RAISING THE PRICE.

Oh wait, I'm going against the hive mind, I must just be whining as usual according to you geniuses. Because hey, a hive mind knows more than ANYONE, right?
There is literally no talking to this guy, he continues to state the same thing over and over again even if it is not relevant. The HUBs had to become paid because Tom needs money to make sure BYOND doesn't crash into a burning oblivion. Also he is not so much marketing the membership he is making it a requirement rather than an accessory, Stop complaining it is isn't going to change anything, especially when the majority of the community isn't on your side.

P.s. don't repeat that same bunch of dribble you replied with last time.
Please stop being so angry, Byond had to make a decision to make more money to allow it to live or else it would die, they certainly wouldn't want it to die.

This was the option that came up trumps, maybe if you have a better suggestion then go ahead but otherwise they were just trying to stay alive for their sake, and our sake, a lot more people would be unhappy if Byond was completely gone than them raising prices a little bit.

I just think we are lucky that Tom stays true to not putting a price on the software :)
In response to Moonlight Memento (#53)
Moonlight Memento wrote:
Advertising a BYOND game? Hardly. I have to advertise the software, and the annoying methods of joining without the hub... at that point, get something that doesn't look like complete spyware and takes forever to play one game. Like the whole Open Location bull.

If you need to do that, I suggest you take a moment to polish up on your dream maker skills. With my games, I publish a zip file somewhere on the web. People download it, extract it, and double click the dang exe. Bam! Magic! They're in my game!
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