ID:1959499
 
I'm fairly familiar with arting-and have a pretty good grasp of things.
I personally just find pixel art really tedious.
I can make decent art at my current level by devoting the time-- I just don't like it.

Any tips? As I'm going to start pixeling daily in order to improve on my skills a bit. (Tired of being without artists basically.. lol)
reducing art load is my specialty. i've thought of writing a blog about it in the past but there are so many facets and techniques that i'm not sure where to begin

In response to Yut Put
I think for anyone who works alone it's probably a great idea.

I am slowly realizing that it's probably better to do it all myself. At first glance it seems counter productive, but the truth of the matter is it's very rare to find someone who sees things the same way, and is willing to devote to it as well to many anything successful.

I've picked up a few minor tricks, but it's pretty common stuff like limiting the states and using as many states / animations for as many different aspects as possible.

Also animating effects like "death" instead of showing an actual body. Perhaps supplementing text creatively in some places.

Other than that-meh. I guess I will just have to learn through experience.
id def recommend , i dont have to rely on anyone .. as to i can do pixel art , programming in multiple langs mostly DM & C++ , digital art , scripting , concept sketching etc..preview of my upcoming Naruto based project all art by me of course.
I agree with Hebrons, working alone is probably the best choice. A lot of artists (me for example) would rather work alone believe it or not, but don't have that knack for programming (because we're too lazy no shit right?)I wouldn't suggest pixel dailies unless you actually want to do it. I don't see it as a way of improving but more of a way to get you to pixel art and have that drive to keep doing it (or if you're experimenting with your own style or something of the sort)

If you want to get better what Yut Put said is probably a good idea, limiting art load is actually a good skill to have. (since it's animation and that's a different kind of art you'll have to practice or something)

If anything stop trying to have everything look good at the same time, it's best to have details that you can work with. Hebrons' art or w/e shows what i mean, one color grass may look dumb but adding patches etc, tree and it can look nice. I've had this trouble with a lot of programmers (making me have to quit eventually) where they want everything to look good from the start instead of waiting on the finish.

Lastly don't worry about the end product, that hold too many artists back.(this is best shown when you're drawing) If you make a mistake see what you can do with it, and experiment as it can come in handy at a later date.
PS:Referencing helps out a lot too and is what helped me get better.
PSS:Srry for lack of grammar and all the stuff i'm not good at english or w/e
@VixiV i was actually gonna ask if you'd be interested in helping out i look at this as a for fun/go with the flow project if it becomes something then it does ive got time im willing to work on it low key for as long as need be 3-4 years if that's what it takes ill skype you about it if your interested no pressure either do things as it comes natural i have a game doc written i could send over and you tell me what you think , it'd actually sorta help as to your prob one of the only artist other than UPDAT3 similar to my style & willing to cooperate .. P.S if your going to work with someone make sure you guys think alike and you are just as motivated as the other guy and he is the same and try keeping your work mate numbers low big teams rarely work out.
I don't think there's a problem with teams, as long as everyone is on the same page. The issue is too many chiefs- everyone wants to do things a different(usually their) way.

Someone doesn't trust person b-so they slack off and accuse others of being shady-when they are infact the ones being shady.
(Have had this happen twice with 2 different artists. They basically didn't do work for weeks or months, then when I called them on it, they got pissy and admitted that they were doing work and just not adding it to the project so they could get the code.)

Or they are too busy being petty (well..he's doing this so why can't I do that)

Or lazy-(needing someone to motivate them every two minutes-- which is the usual culprit. Needing to be baby-sat or coddled to, or hyped up in order to actually get any productive work done--which decreases productivity
Or fickle-- as in interested one moment and the next-- they are making excuses.

Or--too much ego (ALOT of people have that here. Despite the fact that they've never actually completed or finished anything to show for their level of supposed skill.)

In reality making a game is actual work. It's never going to be all fun. Team members can make game development fun though, as long as everyone knows their role and does their part.

That rarely happens for unpaid projects though-- as I said too many people with ideas about how things should be (and often times very unrealistic ideas.)
I could link tutorials, talk about referencing, break down the process, and a number of other things but ultimately I don't think any of that is what you want or need. You probably know most of it, or could find it yourself.

At the end of the day, everyone here is right because that's how pixel artists on BYOND are. Outside BYOND can be a much different story, but then you get into heavy expenses. Next to no one will do what you want or need without money, and probably more than you can part with.

I started out a pixel artist, realized I couldn't do much with it, and started getting into programming. Then I realized I needed maps, but I couldn't count on many to do much, so I studied that a little. Somewhere along the line I got into web design, and ever since I've been a one man army.

Granted, I started out a weak one, but as the years go by I'm improving in each category, projects I couldn't do years ago are all entirely possible now, and I'm even getting faster and finding things easier. So now I can make whatever I want, and it might take a little longer, but I don't have to depend on anyone the most help I get is some suggestions or testers.


TL;DR: Solo is the way to go. Become a one man (or woman) army, and just go with it. It might take months, or years depending on your time and dedication but it'll open up many doors. As for pixel art, find a style you're comfortable with and run with it; simplistic is the easiest.
I concur with working alone being the ideal practice, although if you get teamed up with another person who compliments your weaknesses well and has the same drive, you could blow through work that would've taken you months on your own.

Finding a partner like that is really difficult, though. I've only worked well with someone like that once.
In response to Kumorii
While I get what you guys are saying, do you think Byond would be what it is without everyone contributing over the years? Good or bad?

Technology is built upon tools that other people have developed and someone else improved.

I think the "just work alone" thing may be a cop out of sorts because it's easier to do that than affect a change in people's minds.

Who's to say just talking about the issue might not bring some clarity though and improve the situation?
In response to Avidanimefan
Why do you think that someone has to work with a team to bring about change? Forum Account didn't even make games and left a huge impact on BYOND. As controversial as it may be for some people, Silk worked alone on NEStalgia(to my knowledge) and it made a lasting impact on the community and showed that games made with BYOND CAN be successful and marketable.

Those are just two examples. Every game, every demo, every answered question in the Dev Help forum, it all brings about change and effects at least a handful of people. As for being easier, I disagree for the same "one man army" point brought up above.

As for talking about an issue to get better insight, that's what developer help and design philosophy are for. Hell, you can even do like myself and many other devs and just have a friend on Skype that you pester with ideas and approaches.

I really don't get your point, unless I'm misunderstanding it.
How do you not get my point?
Multiple people contributing is more efficient than 1 person.
Lets all work together! forever! forever! together!
In response to Avidanimefan
Avidanimefan wrote:
How do you not get my point?
Multiple people contributing is more efficient than 1 person.

That's a very straightforward way of looking at it, though.
In reality this sort of thing is just as complex as any social interaction because you have to account for each persons individual personality, work ethic, means of motivation, etc.

A lot of people do better working alone for the fact that they have a solitary nature(how many socialites do you know that are programmers?) and don't necessarily react to social situations well, even if its over the computer. This obviously inhibits the flow of creativity making developing more stressful than expressive.

Which brings back my point that it all depends on the individuals and how they interact with others.
I don't really think my way of looking at it is naieve.
I've worked with several teams.

If you have 3 members and on one day.
Team member 1 who is 3 x as productive as the other two members does X amount of work. Sure that means that single team member is 3x as productive.

Member 1=3
Member 2=1
Member 3=1



Over time what happens is, more work is done regardless of how much a single member contributes. There's always the amount of work that members 2 & 3 would have done.

Same example, let's assume that the project lasts for 30 days. everyone works at the same pace as day one.

member 1= 90
member 2=30
member 3=30

If member 1 chose to work alone, he would in effect have to do 150 units of work in the same amount of time instead of the 90. This means over the long run, member 1 is actually spending more time than he would have working alone. Time is the one thing you can never get back-therefore it's important to maximize how you use it.

All that aside the fact is that a group of people working towards a central goal is what has pushed humanity forward since it's beginning. In today's society people don't see an overly pressing need for it, when ironically the truth is people will always achieve more when they band together for a common goal.

It requires putting a greater purpose ahead of one's own ideas or ego for that to occur--and my original point is it's here that people often fail--not enough people willing to compromise to actually do something.

Aside from all this, I'm a bit surprised at your point of view-considering the open sourcing your doing is exactly that- a way to get people to contribute to your project without forming an "official" team.

It's basically a way to avoid the pitfalls we've been discussing with creative thinking. It seems we just have two different ways of ultimately approaching the situation.
Also more relating to what Yut Put said, he has alot of techniques and tools. Those are his "team". That's his way of making up for the lack of man power. (Which once again isn't a bad thing.)

However 3 people employing the same techniques would effectively boost production rate by 9x (assuming that Yut Put works 3x faster than most people which, doesn't seem too far fetched due to the system he has in place.)
when i work in teams i do all the work myself and only recruit non essential donators who increase game content as long as they literally do anything but dont have any tasks that are important or necessary. that way if they leave or dont contribute, i lose nothing, but if they do contribute, i get a larger game
I didn't open source Skirmish to get people to contribute to the game. It was moreso intended to be a reference.
In response to Kumorii
Oh. lol.
It just sort of seemed that way since you said you were discontinuing the game then open sourced it-lacking alot of the features you had been talking about--then a couple of days later picked it back up again.

So that was just the impression I got. My b.
You must've gotten that impression from the same place you heard I had plans to discontinue Skirmish because that has never been the case and I'd appreciate it if you kept me out of your lies or verify your facts at the very least.

For the record, Skirmish has been open sourced since the get-go, the recent one is just the first public update in awhile.

I don't get why you have to get snide when we were having a perfectly fine discussion.

Page: 1 2 3