Oct 22 2015, 10:19 am
In response to Kaiochao
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Lugia319
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Well considering that the conversation was about commercial success, not self-success, then yes, it's my opinion but it's a validated one. The metric for a game's commercial success is sales, revenue, reviews, refunds, etc. It's nice to think that you did a good job on your game, but all that matters here is the money (for this topic).
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Tis why we need a review section for games.
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I'm pretty sure we used to have something like that. It was hub specific though, and still could be, but I think that's the wrong choice. A forum section for game reviews would be cool, but likely ineffective.
The most useful review is one outside of BYOND. This featured game list would be cool, but it too can be taken care of on our own. Ultimately, I think for BYOND to thrive and grow like we want we must first make our own sites, pages, and games that draw others into BYOND, not draw those from BYOND into our work. Only then could we truly begin to see the community turn, and potentially be something to focus on pulling into our games on top of those outside of BYOND. Always with them, never just the BYOND community alone. | |
I'm not sure that would do so well. A lot of people hate fan games for being fan games. And a lot of people would ignore the flaws in an original game just because its original. Internal reviews are not terribly useful on BYOND as they are on, say Steam or Kongregate because the user-base isn't terribly "bought in" to the idea of a "Steam game" or a "Kongregate game". That aside, external reviews from reputable gaming sites (such as IGN) would be fabulous. As long as it's a salable game (aka, NOT SS13)
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Kaiochao wrote:
What is commercial success? I'm just a naïve, innocent hobbyist programmer. There is no hobbyist programmer in this context. All caps was suggesting that you can come to BYOND to make money, not as a hobbyist, but as a professional. | |
Everyone talking here about making games is a hobbyist programmer/developer.
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This thread is cancer. /unfollow
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Thanks for continually making this thread and every other thread cancer despite everyone's best efforts, Lugia.
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The thing is, I'm the only one providing contrary opinion. BYOND already suffers from circle jerk syndrome where everyone agrees X should be done and X never gets done because everybody is waiting for the next person to do it. I'm also providing industry examples, which are very important because BYOND users cannot ignore the market that they are trying to get into. BYOND is lucky that it's so fringe. If it were more mainstream like Steam, it would have been shut down (like Zynga) for copious copyright infringement.
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Toddab503 wrote:
I think for BYOND to thrive and grow like we want we must first make our own sites, pages, and games that draw others into BYOND, not draw those from BYOND into our work. you're right... but its because byonds moved away from the website and freedom of speech(not on actual games ofc), that the community would need to provide that for byond to expand. the featured game was a good idea, but so were a lot of other things they stepped back from because they didn't want to maintain it. Fugsnarf wrote: Everyone talking here about making games is a hobbyist programmer/developer. http://www.itworld.com/article/2702038/ application-management/ hobbyist-programmers--don-t-call-us-hobbyists.html are you saying that anyone that programs on their own time are hobbyist programmers or are referring to the value of their skills? even people that do programming professionally for companies and are entrepreneurs still do programming on their own time. your comments offensive to some, don't you think? | |
Well, all all-caps said was that BYOND games could make more money if they tried properly i.e. by actually marketing, especially outside of the BYOND community. Only Lugia brought up the comparison with the most popular AAA games:
If you're truly suggesting that marketing is the difference between a BYOND game and a game made on UE or Unity getting on Steam, I have a bridge in Atlantis to sell you. All-caps never suggested that marketing could make a BYOND game as successful as a AAA game. He said it could make a BYOND game a decent amount of money. AFAIK NEStalgia was made with the intent of marketing and making sales, and it successfully got onto Steam and I'm pretty sure it made a decent profit, which was the point. IIRC Tom did mention that a game like FarmVille could work on BYOND and be as successful... but that's just being very optimistic. | |
Not here it isn't. Until Silkwizard hops on this thread, which he won't because he's not an idiot, what I said is true in terms of BYOND development. Hell, maybe even Silk would consider his NEStalgia endeavors in the hobby category at this point.
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Lugia319 wrote:
The thing is, I'm the only one providing contrary opinion. BYOND already suffers from circle jerk syndrome where everyone agrees X should be done and X never gets done because everybody is waiting for the next person to do it. I'm also providing industry examples, which are very important because BYOND users cannot ignore the market that they are trying to get into. BYOND is lucky that it's so fringe. If it were more mainstream like Steam, it would have been shut down (like Zynga) for copious copyright infringement. Lugia I think the problem is the way you go about making your points. You are providing contrary opinion and that's fine(although you actually aren't the only one here doing that) but you are doing it in a negative and disrespectful manner. Almost every single post you make has a negative undertone and it is mostly troll bait. You can pretend you're not trolling and excuse it as just "providing contrary opinion", but purposely posting to get a rise out of someone in such a negative manner is trolling. Everyone in this thread was mostly providing different opinions but notice the difference in how you went about it... You're probably going to get banned from the site if you keep this up. | |
Tone is based on the reader. The reader is associating a negative tone with my writing because I'm an aggressive writer that doesn't BS. This aggressiveness is being taken as an attack to the reader, which is where the implied "negative tone" comes from. If the reader would stop taking my writing personally and view is as the informative work that it's meant to be, they would see that there's more sense in my writing than pretending that everything is perfectly fine, BYOND isn't being outclassed by other IDEs, BYOND developers aren't being outclassed by developers on other IDES
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Lugia319 wrote:
I bet you're voting for Trump too #BrokeBack That seems to be a pretty personal attack and not very informative. I don't have time for this drama, I just thought maybe you'd listen. I'll let you be. | |
Kaiochao wrote:
IIRC Tom did mention that a game like FarmVille could work on BYOND and be as successful... but that's just being very optimistic. i agree with tom, but being as successful can be a matter of luck. two games can be made nearly identical, whereas only one gets noticed and gets the wealth, and other gets barely noticed at all. id imagine the percentage of success would go up the more games that are made (if theyre quality) | |
I think Tom also mentioned something along the lines of hoping that what happened to Flappy Bird could happen to a BYOND game. It is pretty much luck sometimes, huh? Luck and in-game advertisements.
For that to happen, more original games that can legally (not fan-game) get money (through advertisements or sales or in-game purchases or subscriptions) need to be made. The hub credits feature was added to facilitate this route, but no one has managed to take advantage of it. Anyway, this has been getting off topic for a while now. I'm sure a topic on how to make money in a BYOND game could be made for further discussion (if it hasn't already been discussed enough). Let's get back to discussing the idea of a Featured Games list. I think a Featured Games list could just be made on the forums. If it's deemed good enough, it might even be stickied. | |
Way to cherrypick posts. If you're interested in finding personal attacks, look at Fugsnarf's comment "Way to turn every thread into cancer". You can also find a variety of these throughout the threads I've been in. People never focus on my post content, only me. Those are personal attacks.
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Holy frickin crap they finished adding that in 2013? Damn. I had no idea. You got me looking it up, I had searched for it under another name and missed it. That... could be very useful.
On topic, though, right, lets see... A forum thread is a good idea, but honestly what I've always wanted to do is to have a website with dedicated support for this type of feature. Given all my other website goals, I ultimately decided to tie that into something I have in mind for the future, but I've yet to get to that point so... Maybe someone could make a simple one page website that looks good, covers this, and updates as needed. Providing the forum thread isn't enough, of course. Maybe we could even get BYOND to link to it somewhere. | |