That's the really fuckin' weird thing about champs like Darius and Yi, they're gods in low-tier, but in competitive play where it matters, they're all but useless. It throws up a duality where they're overpowered in low elo and underpowered in high elo.
What they need is reworks that balance them out in BOTH arenas. They need to be made viable in high-tier competitive play, but have their snowball potential reduced when dealing with low-tier players.
The problem is that that's far easier said than done. Their kits would require a complete rework and would likely break what people know about the champions to begin with. I believe that if their early game power was significantly reduced, their ability to hypercarry games would be drastically reduced. Right now, any fed AD champ with attack speed and percentage health damage ruins people. Yi just has an easier time getting the gold necessary for it than someone like Warwick. Phantom Dancer, Statik Shiv and BotRK are pretty standard builds on them and cause each of them to do essentially the same thing, but like I said, Yi is far more forgiving in the early game and lets him feed easier.
The biggest change that would affect Darius' early game would be removing his Apprehend ability. Darius pushes lanes godly fast. The creep wave is basically guaranteed to be knocking on your tower after 2 or 3 waves, tops. This makes freezing the lane with Darius incredibly easy, or at least, it would be if not for this ability. Apprehend lets him yank people out from under tower and explode on them a ton of damage, making farming with a frozen lane very difficult.
And if you let the wave push under the tower, you're now fighting your own turret for CS along with the fact that caster minions stay far enough back to where you really don't want to try running up and smacking them for fear of getting yanked out and blown up.
Fortunately this also means that Darius will be denied farm and be susceptible to ganks really easily from this position.
With the removal of Apprehend, his entire kit will be more balanced, allowing people to kite him easier, making him less scary with a frozen lane, etc. What they could replace it with, however would be a very good question. Maybe a passive that boosts him back up or some kind of other CC to make it more viable in high elo. I think a knockback would be a very good trade up with his kit. He'd be creating a lot of distance, meaning the person getting knocked back is safer from Darius, but it could potentially be more useful in team fights.
I think you missed the point of what I said, I've played in low Elo on smurfs with my friend, who has been new, and completely unable to deal with a bajillion different champs. I remember even myself years ago thinking Nidalee (Pre-rework) was broken, or Veigar, or Morde.
You CANNOT balance the game around people who don't know how to play the game. If Darius wasn't flavor of the month OP, Akali would be. Or Shaco, or anyone. The only difference is that at the very least Darius isn't particularly complex to play, nor is Yi. The only way to effectively balance low level play is to make every champ too hard to play effectively, which is a dumb idea in itself. Yi and Darius are just simply straightforward playstyles. You run at someone, and you hit your buttons until they die. They're INREDIBLY easy to play against, despite their actual kits and snowball potential, literally all you have to do is kite and cc. It's not a complex interaction. Champ can do damage whilst he's near you? So don't let him get near you. Low level/Elo players don't understand that, so they can't do it and deem the champion OP. Does that mean they overperform in low Elo? Sure, does it mean the champion is badly designed? Not really, it just means low level players don't know whatdafak they're doing. This is one of the things that Dota2 does a lot better, in the negative way. With the exception of a few outliers, 90% of the champs are incredibly difficult to play (Compared to League), which means the effectiveness gap between levels of skill is much much less jarring. A champion who is strong in low Elo, is usually strong in high Elo too. Ya can't balance your game based off people who don't know how to play the game properly. That is a fact. You can't change chess to be easier for people who try to eat the pieces. You can't balance eating competitions around anorexic people. It's not doable in a fair way. | |
My comment addressed the issue with their non-viability in high elo gameplay. It's just like I said where they're OP in low elo and UP in high elo. If they had more balanced kits that let them be more viable across the board that would be better. I'm not talking about balancing champions to cater to low elo players, because low elo players aren't the only ones who have problems with these champs, it's just that high elo players have different problems with them that makes them far less effective at Gold upwards.
I'm sure more high-tier players would like to see many common champions be better picks than they are in the current meta. | |
This I agree with, but I believe it's the inverse effect of trying to balance for low Elo, that in higher Elo champions become unviable. This is specifically WHY I think Riot should stop.
Also I'd go so far as to say Plat upwards but hey that's just my elitist bigotism seeping through. | |
Just got out of a game against Riot Dash.
 Our team won. Went even in lane against his Fizz using AD TF. I would've typed "get rekt scrub caster" but that probably would've gotten me banned. He didn't type GG or anything at the end of the game, salty nerd with no sportsmanship. Hope he gets fired for losing to someone as bad as me. | |
Lugia319 wrote:
Rip. But looking at his ranked games, he doesn't play mid. But now we all know ET is "Nerf Shyvana" That's one of my unranked accounts. That's actually the only one that isn't chat restricted or has that 20 minute wait timer before queues ATM because I talk shit to my teammates to motivate them to win games. For example, the last team I told to go "uninstall and play in traffic" ended up winning. I made that back when Shyvana was FOTM. Also, which list of ranked games were you looking at? His most played champions are mostly solo lane champions ( Vlad, Olaf, Annie, Gnar, Irelia, and Fizz ). It looks like he plays the solo lane every chance he gets, and if not mid or top, he goes Eve, Yi, or Lee jungle. The only exception is season 4 where it looks like he tried harder to only play jungle which was probably just to make sure he ranked up. He played a decent amount of Fizz in season 3 and 5 and Fizz is his 4th most experienced champion in terms of mastery level. Quit making excuses for the scrub lord. I play Dota 2 50% of the time, he probably plays League exclusively, and I pooped on his 5-man premade ( if you check his Lolking, he faced me with the exact same 4 players he played with in the game before ). I'm starting a petition to get this sportsmanship-lacking, salty ass wannabe professional nerd bucket pile of doodoo banned. He'll never be as legendary as Phreak senpai. | |
I'm trying to work out your teamcomps but it just don't make sense captain.
Also you got dumpstered. (^: | |
A lot of my deaths were due to Rengar pouncing onto me and erasing 90-100% of my health bar before my brain even has time to process what's happening.
Much balanced. | |
EmpirezTeam wrote:
A lot of my deaths were due to Rengar pouncing onto me and erasing 90-100% of my health bar before my brain even has time to process what's happening. Ya a champ reliant on stealth in a meta where stealth is heavily gimped. Much balanced. Buy a ward kiddo. | |
But Akali can't be allowed to burst people.
But Kassadin can't have a silence. But Talon can't have a silence. But Graves can't have a cigar. | |
Kats wrote:
Rushnut wrote: Considering you can only directly buy one type of ward now, "buy a ward" is correct. | |
Considering buying wards counters every champ in the game and not just those reliant on stealth, using that as an excuse to justify Rengar's low risk, high reward, next-to-no-room-for-counter-play-because-he-deletes-you-in-. 5-seconds-after-he-gapcloses-from-across-the-screen-onto-you r-face BS is not correct.
And inb4 "that strategy only works in low elo", this strategy is used by multiple high ELO junglers ( with success ) and has been complained about by high ELO players enough to where Riot was forced to tweak Rengar's ability to do certain things mid-jump ( most notably hi i'm gosu's video with over a million views ). Stay bad. | |
I mean, do I consider Rengar strong? Sure, he's in a good spot at the moment. But Rengar is only strong if he's ahead in items. If he's got the same amount of items as you, or you're both at 6 items, you should be able to deal with him, if you have any notion of actual realistic reaction time. If this was patch 5.21 I'd be all over that "fuck rengar" hype train, but with 5.22 it's much less punishing to go out of your way to fuck his day up that he's far, far from broken.
Stay gold tho, buddy. | |
Diamond in NA is the equivalent of pre-30 in Korea. Your accomplishments are rendered meager.
Tell Balls I said hi. LOL. | |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLhODKsBLXU
Warrior + Tiamat + LW = instaded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgX-W2sl9qI What counterplay? | |
I understand the flaws in my logic, but regardless of that I still don't believe Riot should balance around lower Elo players. They'll always find some way to screw up, and it shouldn't be impacting the people who actually play properly.
If you put a cat infront of the keyboard, you don't think the Galio it faces is overpowered when it inevitably smashes the keyboard for 30 minutes and shits everywhere, with 40 deaths.
I apply the same logic to the game, but then again, Riot is a business. I consider their idea of game design bad for game design, but good for business.