Epic

by Yut Put
Epic
Explore epic dungeons and slay epic foes with your friends in a huge, epic fantasy action RPG world.
I think a mouse-look feature would really help this game's combat.
It was attempted and I didn't like it one bit. The game is mean to be played sort of like LTTP with action RPG elements. Eventually most people shift to using the IOP controls because they are more natural. The integration of the mouse in the combat was just to make the interface easier to access
K, then is joystick support possible? That'd be the best way to emulate a Legend of Zelda game.
Unless you have a program that lets you override the WASD, T, Q, E, I, O, and P keys with your joystick then nope. It's a possibility, though. The game needs its controls to be fixed up a bit, but the mouse is pretty important with interface navigation
My jelly babies disagree.
Yut Put, before I left earlier you asked me to leave you some suggestions. So after waiting out the storm, and having a quick nap I think I'll go ahead and leave those here.

First off, a good thing to do would be to find a trustworthy person with a good machine to do your hosting for you. This would help to deal with some of the lag issues, and allow people who lack strong machines and/or connections to party together with less hair pulling and monitor chucking.

Secondly, you should put more information in about the controls. The tutorial dungeon is a good feature, and give the players valuable information and a taste of the game but it also leaves out the controls for strafing, sneaking, how to raise dead players, how learning spells works(Although to be fair, the player can just re-do the dungeon easily to find a new book if they wasted their first one.), and so on. Perhaps this information is available to the player and like a typical BYOND player I just completely overlooked a easily accesible help button which would have explained everything.


Third, if it's not possible already, letting players set their own controls might be better than trying to "fix them up" as you mentioned in your most recent comment since you wouldn't have to spend the time trying figure out which key map would appeal to the most players, alternatively you could just make three or four different key maps including the original "Classic" map. You could also use both of these ideas.


If it wouldn't increase lag, the chat box could have an optional chime for everyone in your party. While we were running dungeons, I found that many times you would be trying to say something important to me, and I would be too focused on not dying to notice it. An easily distinguished ding or chime would help to remedy this issue and it could be toggled on and off in options if it's troublesome. Alternatively, you could try drawing the eye by having text from party members appear on a different part of the screen, or change the color of it. This is mostly a nitpick however, as one could also just learn to pay attention as they got more comfortable with the game.


Once sneaking is fixed, adding a set of skills one can utilize only while it's active would add a nice little niche to the game for people who wish to play assassins or thieves. I'm not entirely sure on how sneak works but a pick-pocket ability and perhaps letting them plant items on enemies could work too. Typically these items would probably cause negative effects or damage to whoever was carrying them. Like a cursed totem or remote-triggered bombs that can AoE. The downsize is this would be more time consuming than traditional combat, and being discovered in the middle of a mob would spell certain death. This would also work well with trap spells or trap skills if those exist too.

Also, some skill spheres and/or armors which support sneak would also be helpful to this end. If nothing like this exists already, you wouldn't even need to add new stuff for the most part, you could just take some of the ninja suits already in the game and upgrade them a little. The only new stuff you'd really need to add would be items which you create via combination.


My biggest complaint with companions is that you have little control over them. I'm not asking for a 100% domination of them or anything, more like a simple command structure with basic orders which just toggle their AI or something. Basically, this would just turn aggro on and off for the most part so that they don't aggro through walls and get stuck when you need them elsewhere. Also, being able to call them to your location without opening the inventory would help as well since I found that about halfway into the dungeon we both forewent their use and just let them stay dead. Orders wouldn't need to work on summons though, since if they get stuck or killed you can easily summon a new one with the press of a button.

That's all I can really think up for now without having to have a brainstorm session or anything and I would probably only think up new items or skills to add anyway.

I won't make a big deal over how, when, or if you use any of these suggestions.
1. I don't really plan on getting a central server but several attempts have been made by other people. It's a possibility.

2. The controls are highly detailed throughout the whole first two towns. You just didn't see these because we skipped that bit :p I don't think this is a big issue

3. The option to customize controls has been considered already and has not yet been done because I'd have to rewrite the highly expansive key_down() proc to be modular... but it's feasible

4. A party chime would be neat. That's innovative and addresses an issue nobody's brought up yet. Hmm.

5. Sneaking kind of needs a lot of fixing and more support, but here's what you can already do:
-Set traps around an area
-Instant criticals on enemies that are attacked from the behind that haven't spotted you
-......Sneak...
-Put points into a perk on the passive tree that lets you sneak even better
-Orbs that benefit sneak-based players
any suggestions here would be nice.

6. Generally, leather is light and has balanced defense and magic which makes it ideal for rogues including dagger users and archers. I've really been interested in creating entire 20-skill spell sets for specific class builds filled with unique abilities to reduce the copypasta feel. Skills are extremely easy for me to add. I'd just need designs.. *hint hint*

7. Companions are extremely new and could use some(a lot of) elbow grease. I don't want to add more buttons to the already sloppy control scheme, but maybe commands like dragging their icon to a target location or mob would help out a bit. If they had better pathfinding they wouldn't even think to chase a wall, but I haven't bugged ExPixel about pathfinding libraries compatible with forum_account's pixel movement yet
Oh one thing I forgot to mention, wires are annoying. Please fix them.

Furthermore, I'd be more than happy to help you design for this game, why don't we find a good time to have a brainstorming session?

Also, letting players control graphical "intensity" may also help lag. How'd I forget that one?
Just fixed the pathfinding on the AI so that it doesn't run into walls like that anymore.

Wires are really hard for me to phase out. I'm still working at it... in my head...

There's no "graphical intensity" that could be fixed. 99% the icons processed are through rotations, and without rotations, the game would be very bland boring to play.
I'm hosting at the moment.

Oh, by the way, I just remembered a few things. I recall a friend of mine who used drag and drop in a game once, apparently on BYOND it can cause lag, I recommend replacing it with a system where the player clicks the X in the inventory then clicks on an item to sell. For books, the player could use right click to forget skills, then click on an empty skill box and then on a book to learn a skill. Also, in another game I recall damage numbers actually causing lag as well. Make sure your damage number code isn't doing this as well, because combat tends to always cause considerable slow downs when I'm actually hitting the enemy. If I think of anything else I'll continue to comment on it.

A good way to use wires would be to allow the player to "use" the item with the O/P button which places one wire directly under them. The same would work for cutters except it would remove the wire from under the player. The click to place system is kinda unwieldy and this makes more sense, hope that helps.
Haha the damage numbers don't cause any noticeable lag. It's just maptext. Also, the extra communication that drag and drop creates is absolutely nothing compared to the CPU usage caused by having multiple rapidly updating AI running towards you and dynamically processing their icons with pixel movement in 30 fps.

C and X are the hotkeys for wire placement
Alright, well as for the "graphical intensity" thing I mentioned before, I notice when a map loads a lot of the effects like shadows and simulated depth aren't immediately there. Could the player have the option to not load those at all? Even if it makes the game looks a little bland, I'd personally wouldn't mind if it meant better performance. Actually, I'd be quite happy if most games out today released low-graphic clients designed to play smoothly on low-end computers. Graphics aren't that important, at least not to me.
In response to Yut Put
Yut Put wrote:
I haven't bugged ExPixel about pathfinding libraries compatible with forum_account's pixel movement yet

The library gives you the mob.move_to() proc, which finds a path to the target.
I looked it up on my own and I had found that. I was and I am still using move() because it fits easily into my AI proc and I didn't feel like rewriting a lot of stuff to fit in move_to. Instead, I just added a custom, simple pathfinding check to see if the AI has a direct path to its target. This was effective and also reduces lag and awkward spam caused by AI through walls.
In response to Phantom_Merlock
Phantom_Merlock wrote:
Could the player have the option to not load those at all? Even if it makes the game looks a little bland, I'd personally wouldn't mind if it meant better performance.

This has no effect on the performance. It only causes about 1-2 seconds of lag when they load up, even on slow computers. The reason they aren't automatically loaded when the game starts up is because loading the edges on 50+ 50x50 z levels causes the game to take FOREVER to start up.
Pressing q for inventory and chests isn't working for me.
This game is awesome! I'm trying not to get addicted.
One question (may sound dumb) how do you use the wire cutters? I click and press keys while standing over wires or clicking wires but nothing happens.
They're broken, but I fixed them in -my- version that was never released. Lol I'll upload it
I don't see you giving Kevin Macleod credit anywhere in epic
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