Drug dealers tend to get into that business by making a lot of bad choices; people can understand that.
Sex traffickers tend to get into their business by being wholly worthless examples of human beings. By all means let them seek whatever divine forgiveness there is to be had, but let the justice system show them no mercy.
I mean you have to be pretty crazy to expect the parents of human trafficking victims to stop, take a step back, take a deep breath, and attempt to sympathize with and pity the perpetrators. If you mess with someone's children, you're gonna have a hard time. Period. This applies to most creatures. You mess with a wasp nest, wasps will sting the shit out of you to protect the offspring inside. You mess with a bear cub, mama bear will maul you to death to protect her offspring. This part of the discussion actually has the least to do with philosophy and morality. This is about a basic instinct parents have to protect their kids.
Like Lummox said, if they get jailed and they want to repent of their sins, whatever. Knock yourself out. But please don't hold your breath waiting for the day to come when parents show compassion to people who turn their daughters into sex slaves. That's never happening. Sorry. | |
Drug dealers tend to get into that business by making a lot of bad choices; people can understand that. More often than not, drug dealers are indirectly (and sometimes directly) encouraged into that life through way of opportunity (or lack thereof), whether by way of their government, family, etc. It's not just a simple matter of making "bad choices", but responding to circumstance with you and your loved ones' survival in mind. Sex traffickers are not different in this way. They learned from a twisted individual and/or were involved in it themselves, or simply responded with survival instinct in a tight situation, and became what they are. By all means let them seek whatever divine forgiveness there is to be had, but let the justice system show them no mercy. If a baby is punished for something they have no knowledge of being dangerous or destructive behavior, was the punishment effective? I would not say so, as they did not learn right from wrong. Chances are they will do it again when given the opportunity. I'm saying this because, yes, while a death penalty can get rid of someone and prevent them from violating another again, it's ignoring the problem. They'll execute this guy on the left for sex trafficking while ten more offenders are entering prison for the same offense. At worst, they'll be executed, and at best, given shelter, food, etc. for the duration of their sentence. In the case of the latter, they are still sex traffickers waiting to happen. But instead of fixing the root cause of these issues and promote a better next generation, we'd rather kill a human being. I mean you have to be pretty crazy to expect the parents of human trafficking victims to stop, take a step back, take a deep breath, and attempt to sympathize with and pity the perpetrators. If you mess with someone's children, you're gonna have a hard time. Period. This applies to most creatures. You mess with a wasp nest, wasps will sting the shit out of you to protect the offspring inside. You mess with a bear cub, mama bear will maul you to death to protect her offspring. This part of the discussion actually has the least to do with philosophy and morality. This is about a basic instinct parents have to protect their kids. I understand parental instinct, but I'm not talking about parents in specific, but onlookers peering in on a situation they have no experience with outside of their mind. Of course, I don't expect parents to be happy with someone who offended their child. At the same time, you should be able to forgive and wish well for someone who obviously knows no better. This takes a lot of strength but I have seen it be done. But please don't hold your breath waiting for the day to come when parents show compassion to people who turn their daughters into sex slaves. That's never happening. Sorry. The world wasn't always as heartless as it is today. But a cycle is to be maintained, and so here we are. Things will come full circle and compassion will be as abundant as hatred and closed-mindedness is now. | |
It's a deep and long history, that of ethical justice and serving to ensure the punishment fits the crime. But again that entails that punishment is the answer to crime. I personally believe in the idea of exile. No death penalty, no imprisonment, none of that. Just simply send them off. If it were more viable I'd say space for that, but since that's not an option I'd say a large island nation. Like Australia. Yes, this doesn't solve anything, yes in most cases sending someone to a place like this is the same as a death sentence. But this of course would be the far end extreme of that sort of justice system. Of course this is all in a hypothetical world order where a planetary government exists.
For simpler petty and nonviolent crimes i suggest large hotels, like prison but much nicer and when your sentence is through you're welcome to just stay until you get on your feet or just die of old age, whatever, you deserve a place to live and food and clothing. Emphasis in most cases on rehabilitation vs punishment. For those cases that turn to repeat offender I suggest exponential growth on sentencing. For violent crimes I suggest, as before, exile to a nation of violence. I also think there should be more public facilities for aggression understanding, coping, and release. Boxing, martial arts, rage rooms, etc. I know these views of mine are very short sided and come with many questions, immediately obvious are logistics and finances, but these are my personal views and I thought I'd just contribute as best I could. | |
At the same time, you should be able to forgive and wish well for someone who obviously knows no better. This is done on a case by case basis. Some edgy teenager who stole a PS4 from Wal-Mart can be forgiven. Someone who made tens of thousands of dollars enslaving kids needs to be put down. Julius Caesar forgave his enemies and we all know how that turned out.  The world wasn't always as heartless as it is today. The world being worse now than it has ever been in the past is a myth. | |
FKI wrote:
More often than not, drug dealers are indirectly (and sometimes directly) encouraged into that life through way of opportunity (or lack thereof), whether by way of their government, family, etc. It's not just a simple matter of making "bad choices", but responding to circumstance with you and your loved ones' survival in mind. Sex traffickers are not different in this way. They learned from a twisted individual and/or were involved in it themselves, or simply responded with survival instinct in a tight situation, and became what they are. The idea that sex traffickers come to learn that this is okay, or fall into it somehow, is ridiculous. It's nothing at all like dealing or supplying drugs. With drugs a person chooses to self-medicate against the law, and the dealer/supplier is simply filling that desire; the user is ultimately a victim, but they're as much a victim of themselves as of the drug culture that pulled them in. In human trafficking there are three parties: the seller, the buyer, and the "product"--a person whose freedom and dignity has been stolen. Any fool can rationalize selling drugs to addicts, especially if they're an addict themselves; but selling human beings requires evil. By all means let them seek whatever divine forgiveness there is to be had, but let the justice system show them no mercy. Er... are you arguing that a person who engages in human trafficking doesn't know they're doing wrong? If so, then I reject that argument as silly on its face; and if that's not what you meant, I'm not sure what bearing this has on the discussion. Let us agree that sex traffickers know what they're doing, and they do it because it brings them money and they have no scruples whatsoever. No one simply falls into that way of life. It isn't even on the same plane as piracy, or kidnapping for ransom. Those things are bad too, but I can understand the economic climate that pushes people there. Human trafficking happens around the world regardless of economic climate, and it's a much more concentrated kind of filth. I'm saying this because, yes, while a death penalty can get rid of someone and prevent them from violating another again, it's ignoring the problem. They'll execute this guy on the left for sex trafficking while ten more offenders are entering prison for the same offense. At worst, they'll be executed, and at best, given shelter, food, etc. for the duration of their sentence. In the case of the latter, they are still sex traffickers waiting to happen. But instead of fixing the root cause of these issues and promote a better next generation, we'd rather kill a human being. The root problem of human trafficking is simply that there are people willing to do it. It's not like drugs at all in that way. A lot of people crave drugs for myriad reasons, and that demand creates a market which entices supply. There's no one in the world who needs a slave to alleviate chronic pain or make a bleak life temporarily seem tolerable. Although I will add this caveat: There are places in the world where the extreme poor will sell their children to traffickers for money to live on, and this has created a sort of ongoing market in which the traffickers act like middlemen. This is no less deplorable than when this happens via kidnapping, but I think in this case it can (and perhaps has to) be approached from more angles than just going after the traffickers directly. But in either case, killing the SOBs is the most direct response. Killing the kidnapping variety in particularly brutal ways so as to create an extreme chilling effect is not uncalled for. This is simply not like other crimes. When I become a supervillain, these monsters will not fare well. The world wasn't always as heartless as it is today. But a cycle is to be maintained, and so here we are. Things will come full circle and compassion will be as abundant as hatred and closed-mindedness is now. The world was considerably worse in days gone by. Even the most cursory study of history proves that in spades. But it is deeply depressing to read any literature on the subject of trafficking and realize that the industry still hums along under the surface, even in the civilized world. As for compassion becoming abundant and humanity growing past this, we can certainly hope. But evil people doing evil things for profit won't end until those evil people are rooted out like the weeds they are and destroyed. Compassion won't solve the trafficking problem, but it will always be central to healing the wounds that problem causes. Where compassion and kindness come into play is that to make it easier for people to escape their plight, and in turn to make it easier to catch the animals responsible, we need to look for more and more ways to cut the cords the monsters use to control their victims. Too often, victims are kept in line by threats that the police will act against them, and sadly there's an element of truth in it. Illegal immigrants brought in for sex work deserve a chance to find asylum, especially if it will bring down whatever scum are making a buck off their presence. We should be blowing holes in the walls that keep victims trapped, and always working to widen the holes that are already there. But make no mistake: We can, we must, make horrific examples of those who build and maintain those walls. | |
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I'm glad to see that Lummox isn't all that evil after all.
[edit] Lummox is Gru confirmed. [edit edit] we're his minions :( | |
Yut Put wrote:
this is OT but gladiator am i the only one who thinks gladiator style combat is an instinctively human thing to want to see despite the obvious human rights implications I think we're hardwired to see competition, not necessarily combat and not necessarily to the death. There's an intrinsic understanding of the value of struggle, and the desire to see someone overcome that struggle. Gladiator combat is merely the logical extreme, and the easiest to organize because it has very few rules; you simply play to win. | |
There's multiple reasons why we enjoy watching people compete against each other. Too many to list.
I would say the most basic culprit is that we want to be entertained and conflict is entertaining. We can observe this even in our own community. Some of the most lengthy discussions we've had on this site weren't about games at all, but instead pointless drama between certain members of the community. That's the type of thing that engages people and makes them interested. Meanwhile I can make a thread about something game design related and no one cares. If you built an arena and had hugging competitions where men and women came together to see who could give the best hugs, no one would watch it. It's hugging. It's nice, it's compassionate, there's no struggle as Lummox pointed out. Some of the fastest growing channels on YouTube right now are channels centered around drama. There's a teenager named Leafy on YouTube with 4.7 million subscribers and literally all he does day in and day out is talk shit. That's it. Just a shit talker. 4.7 million tune in to hear a child rant, roast people, and discuss pointless drama. Let me reiterate. 4.7 million. This is an example of one of his videos. This is what 4.7 million ( and counting ) subscribe to. | |
At an even deeper level, I'd say humans have an appreciation for conflict. Conflict is at the heart of all stories; you pretty much can't have a meaningful story without it. As a rule we prefer conflict that doesn't directly involve ourselves, but does give us someone to root for.
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Following this train of thought, your mind works overtime to defend the contents of your "good" box (your bias) and shun any thing that does not fit. In other words, your projection of life will always come from inside the box, out. This is not living in the moment (reality).
I understand your feelings. There was a time in my life where I felt the same toward rapists due to an experience of someone close to me. It even got to the point where I was planning to do heinous things to the offender in question.
But there came a point where I realized how much of a toll that negativity took on me, however subtle it was. I came to accept it for what it was -- an unfortunate happening in life -- and let it go. As human beings, we are the only creature [on this planet that we know of] that have the ability to consciously evolve. However, this process is severely hindered if you are "stuck".
This is a destructive view on things; this way of thinking perpetuates the chaotic mindset of the world today. If we are ever to reach a period where crime is close to non-existent, then our views -- from the universal to the individual -- must change to encourage promotion instead of demotion.
While you may see sub-human scum in a human trafficker or otherwise, I see a damaged human being who knows not how to respect the life they are so fortunate to have. The important thing, though, regarding a damaged or broken component, is that there is an implied state of wholeness that can be reached. The human trafficker, the drug dealer, the murderer and the rapist -- they were not born this way, they were made. So while it's easy to judge a person on the choices they have made, keep in mind that we are all not that different -- any one of us could have been them and still can be.