It's my opinion that some better documentation, perhaps placed somewhere on the website, regarding Steam, is a good idea. Especially when you consider that Steam now has Steam Direct; its even easier to put games up there now and have them published.
Maybe even a special contact form, sub-forum or other form of communication, should accompany that idea, to help Lummox and people serious about development. I for one personally messaged him twice in the last two months, then again on another key directly, to try and initialize negotiations about the release of my new game on Steam, but to no avail.
So I truly believe the whole policy needs a firm going over and something officially written up, because apart from generous donations by some of our oldest members, Byond needs some kind of revenue to keep it going. And as some people here have already stated, what better way than to first get it from new, serious developers, and second. From new people interested in working with the engine from outside Byond community.
Maybe even make it so if you pay for a subscription, you're allowed to use the EXE creator? I'm not sure, but anything is faster and better than what we have at the moment.
Writing A New One wrote:
...Actually, I take a lot of this back, since I learned that client FPS also interpolates network delays... Yeah, in that case, there's no real dealbreaker holding anyone back if they want a smooth game. | |
truth be told once unity releases the tile mapper i think byond will only have the instant multiplayer aspect as its only unique feature but aside from that and its swapable iconner/mapper/coder system not much is really offered from the byond engine that will make someone not goto unity instead
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Nadrew wrote:
The problem with extra hands is that it would take these people so long to actually learn what's doing what that it would almost entirely defeat the purpose. Not to mention the work it would take just to get things organized in a way that would make that possible. Except as with everything in life, everybody that started a new job/hobby/whatever, after this first 'learning phase' people get the hang of it and begin to understand better and better. It's been like this for years now, I really REALLY doubt that people couldn't get the hang of the inside of the engine within that time period and do something useful. But the more that is delayed the longer this will be a one-man project, the longer people will see small progress and the less people will be inclined to donate, until the funds run dry and it all grinds to a halt. Great example is SS13, there's a fuckton of code (both shit and good), but people seem to be able to navigate that just fine and I myself have no problem finding anything any more, up to this point is is only increasing in size and it is being refactored quite well. BYOND could easily do the same, although not on an open-source scale like that. There has to be some people around here he could entrust with helping him, wtf have they been doing here for all this time otherwise? It isn't that is is impossible or not feasible or just too hard, nobody has tried and therefor we won't ever know. | |
It actually was tried before, that's why Lummox is working on BYOND at all. There was a point where multiple people were brought in to work on things. It took them all a very long time to be able to start making meaningful contributions.
This was over a decade ago, and Lummox has only recently gotten comfortable enough to start digging into the compiler core and other deeper parts of the engine. | |
Just because it took Lummox a decade doesn't mean it'll take someone else a decade.
It really doesn't matter though. Lummox feels working solo is best. I just hope he has a plan for when people do stop donating. The pool has already been drying up for a long while now. I don't even know why I'm still here. I guess nobody truly leaves BYOND. | |
This was over a decade ago, and Lummox has only recently gotten comfortable enough to start digging into the compiler core and other deeper parts of the engine. I bet it wouldn't take me nearly as long to be useful. =P (Not to take anything away from lummox, just saying, I have a knack for learning codebases) | |
I get the feeling that as soon as Byond did go open source, the irony would hit hard and there would be Byond DBZ edition and Byond las noches, lol.
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MrStonedOne wrote:
This was over a decade ago, and Lummox has only recently gotten comfortable enough to start digging into the compiler core and other deeper parts of the engine. Fuck someone give this man access to the source already. Man you made SS13 run from complete crap to quite reasonable, that's gotta count for something. Edit; Any way, it seems reasonable that Lummox has no intention of any of this, he seems to avoid anything that revolves around these kinds of discussions and I have yet to see him make an actual statement about anything. Too bad we're not in for good change, here's to the 'good old times'.. | |
I don't know if lummox still intends to run this company as a product or if it's just a hobby now.
but in the age of extremely high quality free game engines like unreal and unity is there really a market left? | |
I will also support this notion. I would love the Byond community to continue to grow and this might be the way to go.
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Nothing except the webplayer matters. It has the most bang for the buck. Operator overloading has no bang for the buck.
Just go open source =) 1) Get Lummox to name his price to go open source 2) He goes on Kickstarter and says "Raise $60,000 and BYOND goes open source" 3) Pay Lummox off and we get open source BYOND 4) He gets a massive payoff yet continues to get some perks because he owns the BYOND.com domain | |
BYOND likely makes more than $60k in a year, and a fundraiser that's literally "open sourcing BYOND" isn't going to make that much anyway.
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Tens of DU, give up on your trash, illegal game.
Everyone else, stop bitching and make something. BYOND is a perfectly viable 2D engine and BYOND's true potential hasn't even been remotely touched. We have games like NEStalgia, Feed, Epoch, Curse of the Weredude, and Transcendence which totally shit on the vast majority of games being made with the engine, and those five aren't even the pinnacle of what BYOND can do. The people who say the engine is trash simply have no clue how to use it. For those that do but BYOND doesn't do what they need, find a new engine that will and move on. Don't just sit on the forums circlejerking over how "bad BYOND is" for the millionth time. Most of the people that complain don't even have any games that remotely test the limits of the engine(if any game at all) and are sitting here complaining when the only context you have for how 'good' the engine is are piss-poorly made anime RPGs made by people even less educated on the engine than you. If I can get this to run smooth at a stable 40fps online, with 10+ people connected, firing bullets, etc. then you can make something just as good. Stop selling yourselves short and then blaming the engine for your missing change. | |
It has to be an original game anywhere
Or with the permission of the rights holder | |
To be fair, 40 FPS with 10+ people isnt good. Not saying BYOND cant be used, just that there are some very valid concerns with BYOND as an engine.
Anyhow, depending on how big your project is, BYOND can work fine. Like all engines, they all have their own strengths and weaknesses | |
Feed can run at 60 fps too. that was the default for awhile but it just seemed excessive for little difference.
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My biggest concern is the general direction BYOND is going. I too believe that remaking BYOND is probably it's best shot at picking up momentum. A new modern game dev engine made using modern technology, while still maintaining DM as we know it. A website refresh is just a minor part of the big picture.
I know I sound kinda harsh, but there is no ill intent. I've just held hope for so long... Hoping that the engine that made me into who I am today can be integrated to compete with modern software.
All that hope has kinda vanished, and I'd be a liar if I said it didn't upset me. Everyone still here cares in some way or another.