Top 4 reasons byond is losing it's players.

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Nov 12 2009, 11:17 pm
Tales Number TwO wrote:
Here is my top 4 reasons//add your own or reply//
One
Byond Membership - Honestly, most of the people on byond are byond members because they get benefits that others wont get.

Saying that most members are paying for, and supporting, BYOND is not a negative point against BYOND. It shows that BYOND can instill loyalty.


Two
Byond Games - Too many super powers especially in anime games. If you look at the games on byond there is always this one game that overpowers the rest. These games will have like 100 players in it, while the rest only have 3 or 4.

Having several games that have huge player bases is in no way an indication of a failing community. If anything you've just proved that BYOND is booning.

Three
Members! - In addition to reason number two, byond does not have enough members to support everyone.This can effect the gaming business. Members who have worked hard to create their games are now in trouble because they have to face the Superpower of their gaming community.Moreover , these games are often neglected and dropped.

Your last point said that BYOND had too many members in some of its games, and now you say there are not enough? Try thinking before typing.


Four
Level of Attention Beginner Coders- I was once a beginner coder and from my personal experience i hated when i asked for help and i was immediately given the link to the DM. I admit the DM is useful but it did not help me at all. Imagine someone that has never coded before and then thrown to a page full of weird numbers and letters.

BYOND is the best online community I have ever come across when it comes to supporting newbies. If someone is too stupid to press F1 when they have a simple query, they don't even deserve to be directed there, yet people still take the time to do it.

None of your 'reasons' support your opinion, and most are completely invalid. Go back to school son.
Nov 13 2009, 5:14 am
In response to Schnitzelnagler
You mention and compare commercial products with 'fan games' on BYOND. That is tricky, because a commercial fan game would have to pay a massive chunk to the copyright-holder, so there is a lot more incentive to create 'original content'.

Never mentioned fan games in that paragraph, it's more of an example for him to use on "super-powered", and how Just because Final fantasy was an awesome RPG it didn't stop people from creating they're RPGs. Same goes for other games. I specifically used the Final Fantasy in both examples, because I know about the battle system changes from ff10 to ff12, and the skepticism it got from it's fan base. As for the other thing I mentioned I used it because Chrono Trigger is just an awesome game and so is Final fantasy. Of course halo and modern war would have worked also.

Just telling him that 2 or more "super-powers" (games) can co exist at same time. Of course though like most places some fans will clash over which one is better, some will accept both games as good games, and some will just say both are not good and list games in the genre that are better, sometimes right sometimes wrong.
Nov 13 2009, 5:54 am
In response to Solcolito_Butch
I might have expressed myself in a bad way.
You mention that a good game does not prevent another good game from being invented (which I would basically agree on), though, the only alternative for this would be a 'spin off', or 'fan game' of the first good game.
And that would require purchasing a license, which is what I tried to hint at.
Nov 13 2009, 6:14 am
In response to Schnitzelnagler
Oh, ok I see, well you (not you specifically) wouldn't have to buy a licence for they genre just for a fan based spin off. I was talking about straight genres without taking into account the spin off/fan based stuff.
Nov 13 2009, 6:22 am
In response to Solcolito_Butch
Indeed, but there are only three options.
Create ...
  1. an original game
  2. a spin off
  3. no game at all

Option number three is not a valid option for those trying to generate revenue, thus, it's only options one and two left.
And between the two, there is a difference if you compare them on a commercial or a non commercial level.
You get a decent fanbase right away when creating a spin off/fan game (which is why they come in such great numbers), but you have to pay a license. The drawback of paying for a license gets void when the game is no longer commercial.
Nov 13 2009, 6:43 am
In response to Schnitzelnagler
Wait, wait ,wait We're kind spinning off of what I was describing a bit. I was making/using an example to explain even though BYOND has "super-power" games. (Even though most people would consider the top anime games as "super powered".) Doesn't mean said game and or genre shouldn't be made by anyone else. That's all I was explaining by what I said in the previous posts.

If you still understand (or maybe someone else doesn't) here is a more condense version.

Say there is 3 BYONDer's and 2 decide to make a game based on a genre, let's say shoot'em up. BYOND'er 1 finishes first, his game becomes a big hit. So BYONDer 2 who began his game around the same time as BYONDer 1. So BYONDer 2 shouldn't quit because BYONDer one said he made his first and it is popular.

So in short all I was saying is, don't stop making your games (again not you specifically) just because someone else has a similar/look a like game with different features and characters.

Actually now that I about it my example of using chrono and FF is quite redundant considering the only thing in common would be the genre. Lol anyways that's what i was trying to say, even if it did take a few post's to understand my way of wording it was wrong a bit.

*Edit*
I have gave it some thought and I will be buying memberships for me and my son. My daughter Is still a bit young to have one. She just likes to play Tetris! *cough*shamless plug for antX's game*cough*:p
Nov 13 2009, 7:03 am
In response to Solcolito_Butch
I'm sorry, I kind of misunderstood you before, so thanks for explaining again ;)
And welcome to the BYOND member's club! I hope you're going to like it as much as I do. Should you have trouble setting up your son's page, just drop me a line and I'll try my best to help.

Oh and... let me be the first to thank you for supporting BYOND, both though creating a a game and with money! ;)
Nov 13 2009, 2:19 pm
In response to Ease
Ease wrote:
Saying that most members are paying for, and supporting, BYOND is not a negative point against BYOND. It shows that BYOND can instill loyalty.
Ok i now fully understand this one now and will agree with you on here, that byond needs the money and thats why members get benefits that others wont because it will persuade them to become members.I admit that i was completely wrong here.
Two

Having several games that have huge player bases is in no way an indication of a failing community. If anything you've just proved that BYOND is booning.
"Booning"
Maybe thats what you see from your POV, but i don't think that games having a huge player base will help the community.Like Walmart, everyone loves walmart for their good quality and cheap prices.Walmart makes tons of money but what about the other companies?They gain nothing from this but lose everything.
Three
Your last point said that BYOND had too many members in some of its games, and now you say there are not enough? Try thinking before typing.

I meant that if byond is ever going to balance out the players on the games then they will need to recruit more members so some empty spaces can be filled for games that need players.
Four
BYOND is the best online community I have ever come across when it comes to supporting newbies. If someone is too stupid to press F1 when they have a simple query, they don't even deserve to be directed there, yet people still take the time to do it.

None of your 'reasons' support your opinion, and most are completely invalid. Go back to school son.

First, I am in school ( and still learning) and I am alote younger than you think i am. Second , When i started learning to code it was not as simple as to just press F1 and be DONE. Trust me if it was that simple everyone will be creating their own games. Maybe it was easy for you but everyone is different and unique.
Nov 13 2009, 10:39 pm
In response to Tales Number TwO
Tales Number TwO wrote:
(...)what about the other companies?They gain nothing from this but lose everything.
(...)they will need to recruit more members so some empty spaces can be filled for games that need players.

I have the feeling that you're not seeing this one from a realistic point of view. BYOND does not pay it's players, so the players want something they enjoy.
If your game is worth their time, they will come and play.
The games have to compete for the players, else players would have to be paid to play.
Nov 14 2009, 1:15 am
In response to Tales Number TwO
Actually I found the articles, and the guide a simplistic, and well design tutorial. I have been on BYOND for maybe about a month or so now, and yes i am still learning but in that month I have learned a lot from the guides alone. I am also instilling what little knowledge I know about DM into my son who is 11 It's slow going but it's going. Everyone has their speed to learning just go at your own pace (not you specifically) If you can't have the patience to sit and read a few chapters and a few maybe 4 at the most pages for each post of neat stuff, how do you expect to have the patience to sit for hours programming and programming for months on end.

This was another thing I wanted to mention, but got kind side track.

Balance out player? What do you mean by this? You can't take people from a game they want to play. If you make a good game and they like it you too will see numbers in the 100's(again not you specifically)

As for the booming part, from what I hear it's come from a community of a little over 2000 players too 5000. That's very impressive, sure some may leave but i bet for every person leaving there is another to take his place. I myself have been rallying my fellow geeks at work, and on the internet.

I know you said you are still young, but you need to learn the facts about how BYOND IS booming with life, more so in some areas then others, but thats just because people have life's outside of BYOND also. The community and program that is Dream Maker is still developing let it ride, if the community gets worse then it gets worse. Every community has it's ups and downs. The easiest thing to do would to instill your trust in the BYOND staffm and just enjoy the great free program that they are giving us, and pushing out amazing updates.

Also excuse me if i ramble a bit it's 6 in the morning, and I am still up working.
Nov 14 2009, 6:31 am
In response to Vic Rattlehead
Peer pressure, in my opinion, only has a slight correlation (if any) with intelligence. Go to a college party and you'll see why. For instance, people don't drink because there's this intense amount of people telling them to do so; they drink to avoid feeling awkward. The same thing applies throughout many situations through life.

Peer pressure does not have to be direct for it to be insidious.
Nov 14 2009, 6:52 am
In response to Vic Rattlehead
Vic Rattlehead wrote:
You have to realize though, if someone is so gullible (I'm not sure that's the right word for it, but I dunno what would is correct for this case) as to let someone run their life, they're probably not very intelligent anyway.

I remember reading about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs in psychology, too bad I no longer have my notes on it. But I got a quote from Wiki:

"Humans need to feel a sense of belonging and acceptance, whether it comes from a large social group, such as clubs, office culture, religious groups, professional organizations, sports teams, gangs ("Safety in numbers"), or small social connections (family members, intimate partners, mentors, close colleagues, confidants). They need to love and be loved (sexually and non-sexually) by others. In the absence of these elements, many people become susceptible to loneliness, social anxiety, and clinical depression." --Wikipedia

As the quote has stated, we need to feel a sense of belonging and acceptance. When we attend parties, the majority of the people there are drinking, and those who are not drinking may feel deviant. In order to "fit in", they'll do whatever it takes. It's not a lack of intelligence; it is the need of feeling accepted.

Clearly, not everyone will fall into peer pressure. If you are one who did not, good for you. But that gives you no right to call someone unintelligent for being included in the many that do. I'm fairly sure most would agree that you should be the last person calling someone unintelligent.
Nov 14 2009, 9:59 am
In response to Calus CoRPS
Calus CoRPS wrote:
I remember reading about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs in psychology, too bad I no longer have my notes on it. But I got a quote from Wiki:

"Humans need to feel a sense of belonging and acceptance, whether it comes from a large social group, such as clubs, office culture, religious groups, professional organizations, sports teams, gangs ("Safety in numbers"), or small social connections (family members, intimate partners, mentors, close colleagues, confidants). They need to love and be loved (sexually and non-sexually) by others. In the absence of these elements, many people become susceptible to loneliness, social anxiety, and clinical depression." --Wikipedia

As the quote has stated, we need to feel a sense of belonging and acceptance. When we attend parties, the majority of the people there are drinking, and those who are not drinking may feel deviant. In order to "fit in", they'll do whatever it takes. It's not a lack of intelligence; it is the need of feeling accepted.

Great, I just found out I have social anxiety (supposedly its even worse on OCD'ers, score++ I guess). Stupid internet. ;(
Nov 14 2009, 10:03 am
No.
Nov 14 2009, 11:34 am
In response to Rugg
Rugg wrote:
No.

huh?
Nov 14 2009, 11:46 am
In response to Tales Number TwO
It appears that he does not agree with you.
Nov 14 2009, 12:12 pm
In response to Solcolito_Butch
Solcolito_Butch wrote:

Balance out player? What do you mean by this? You can't take people from a game they want to play. If you make a good game and they like it you too will see numbers in the 100's(again not you specifically)

I know you cant take people away from the game they enjoy so much. What i meant is that we need more players to fill in the gaps in the games, so that a game with only 4 to 5 players may have hope in surviving.From my experience when i used to look for games to play i look for a game with at least 15 to 18 players.BYOND offers ONLINE multilayer games, and if their is not enough players online to play with then it will be boring.

Nov 14 2009, 12:14 pm
In response to Kaioken
Kaioken wrote:
It appears that he does not agree with you.

ooooOOo ok he could of just said that, or is that how it works down here now? o_o
Nov 14 2009, 12:18 pm
In response to Calus CoRPS
If you feel the need to be "accepted" by everyone by doing bad things, go ahead. Proves your intellect, though.
Nov 14 2009, 12:38 pm
In response to Tales Number TwO
Tales Number TwO wrote:
There is more to the issue , if you do create a very good game but has 3 players in it then people will ignore it because they want a game with at least 10 players because its alote more interesting.

that's not BYOND's fault, but the lack of effort of the developer(s) to promote and advertise their game or listen to their player base in making changes/updates/fixes or (more likely) to come up with games or concepts that people might want to play, not the n-th Naruto/DBZ/Resident Evil game.

'a very good game' is relative, and relevant only to *you*. your mileage may vary.


If we had more people on byond then maybe it will be able to fill in the empty seats in games with a few players.Instead of they same 98 players playing the same game maybe the new members might try or look at the other games.

more people on BYOND != filling all games. you cannot expect people to be forced into playing games they are not interested in playing, for whatever reason. this is true of *any* community.

you also need to look at the fact that the majority player-base is comprised of mostly young teens crazed with the desire to play as their favorite Anime/Manga character in a free game where they can beg, borrow, or steal their way into a fantasy of power over their playmates.

the total of verifiable, literate, and proficient developers on BYOND (and I'm talking about people who understand game design, game theory, *and* programming) is less than (or equal to) 12. Unfortunately, the games they create (and there are some very good ones out there) are not the ones that the current majority player-base is interested in playing. in games like Red Cap, Ruin, Thieves, Tomb Explorer, Carpe Slimum, Plunder Gnome, Last Robot Standing, Mano a Mano, Murder Mansion, Your money or your Life, Castle, Dragon Warrior Online, Gotcha, and dozens more, there is nothing for them to beg, borrow, or steal (in terms of in-game power or control). these games usually need some semblance of intelligent thought in order to play them. they are not for the majority player-base.

so either you get the players to change their preferences (ie expand their horizons of what 'fun' is, or just friggin' grow up), or you get more developers to make the games the kids want to play.
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