ID:320500
 
Resolved
Icons could disappear when out of sight in some rare cases.
BYOND Version:493
Operating System:Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Web Browser:Internet Explorer 9.0
Applies to:Dream Seeker
Status: Resolved (494)

This issue has been resolved.
I don't have that much helpful information but to say that I have seen a few glitches in a few games that I have been playing, one of them seemingly forever, one of them seemingly limited time only...

In Two Steps BYOND I noticed the red fountain where the animation is at for the water was a blue square there for a seemingly un-known reason.

Now in Rise of Heroes I see that the cave entrances at Kishkan have dissappeared & all I see is the grass...now for this one I moved away & came back to view & all was fixed...

In the Two Steps BYOND though I moved away as far as I could everywhere but this didn't fix it-self...

---The code of both is freely available & I don't have any real information about whats going on & how to re-produce, etc.... however im posting in hopes someone else can provide more information or at least someone who may not have posted about the issue but had it can at least confirm that this is a real issue...& not for example a problem with my computer in some way...hardware failing, etc....
Also...the whole cave just turned black on me in Rise of Heroes...I finished Two Steps BYOND in half an hour so since i'm not playing it, it maybe why I didn't notice more problems in it...

I have never had problems before but didn't play much before now with this version of BYOND.

I sure hope my pc isn't going out...

If it could be due to networking though...I am however using wireless now...I was using a wired connection last time I was playing games...however I am hosting the game(dream daemon) and connecting with the internal ip(not internet but network)

Maybe this is making the difference, i'm not sure...but I just hope it's nothing wrong with my computer such as a hardware component failing or a software problem of some sort(though I don't use anything I haven't usually always had before) & the video card drivers & such have been the same for a long time...

EDIT:As for Two Steps BYOND I wasn't hosting it at all & was playing through dream seeker when it glitched....

EDIT 2:By the way, the cave stayed black until I relogged...I will keep this updated so BYOND knows everything that happens & can possibly spot the possible problem or a pattern to it....

I know in the past it was a corruption in the icons which make it choose different icons or what not than their supposed to be...maybe something similar is happening now...again....

---If problems persist I will try the clear cache button & re-opening the pager to see what happens or allow it to open itself instead of me opening it before-hand & see if the pager plays any role...and leaving it off completely(which I guess isn't possible unless you close it after it starts) because the only options you get are how it acts after it starts itself up, not an option to stop it from starting up...
I Was in Town 2 Going to Town 3 Leveling up. When I Warp To Town 1 ( Kishkan ) i Went to the Cave to try and Help out Player (IWP) The Cave at First was Okey But After a Few Mins It Turned Black I left and came back In to see if that was the Problem but it was not.. it left When i Told SuperBike About it.. It's All Weird.. But He told me to Report. So i Might as WEll Do that.. :) If it Happens Again il Will Report it To see if theres anything we can do.
OK well I asked Solutions9 to report the problem he had...he had a problem in Rise of Heroes, the same as me....the cave went black at Kishkan, however unlike when it happened to me, when he came back into view it fixed itself...

I am sure this isn't related to an in-game bug or my computer because a few people have been experiencing similar things....but seemingly all with the same objects or what not...maybe something about the icons in some way is causing a problem...something similar has happened before...

Also the code in the game can be my modified version or the normal RoH when it happens & it doesn't use image or client's screen stuff but only the one person sees the issue(their screen alone) & if it was a bug when image & client screen objects aren't used to draw everything then it must mean something else is acting up(a genuine bug)

But I am not able to figure out what the problem is myself...

EDIT:I looked at the release notes & the latest change...

-Dream Seeker was holding onto memory for unneeded icons for much longer than it should have, impacting games that used relatively few but large icons. Icons that haven't been used in 5 minutes are now unloaded by the garbage collector.

That maybe causing the issue somehow because I have never noticed the bug before now & the only change I see to do with non-dynamic icons....

I used 492 & other versions extensively so i'm pretty sure it appeared in 493...
You haven't provided enough information in this bug report. There is no set of steps to reproduce the issue, no link to the games that show it, not even screenshots of the issue in action.
Lummox JR changed status to 'Unverified'
Lummox, what information do you want? Also I will remember to take screenshots next time....it doesn't take long before each occurence...so just tell me what you want & I will get the information for you...
As for links the links to the game(s) in question listed here are the same as in my audio bug report...

There are no steps because they aren't known, basically after playing the game the graphics problems have appeared(multiple people)...
As I've mentioned on many occasions, we normally require steps to reproduce the bug so we can confirm it in action and confirm a fix. If the bug is intermittent, there may still be steps that at least cause it to happen more often. Without any such info, the only thing I can do is join a game and blindly stumble around, hoping to see the problem crop up. My chances of seeing a bug are significantly diminished without at least some guidance, so I almost never do this.
In response to Lummox JR (#8)
ok well I understand your feelings on this but im also not quite sure that there is much that can be done for me to narrow this down to steps for it to happen more often than it does...it seems to happen at least every half hour to someone....not to everyone so i'm not sure this would be feasible for testing unless you had many pc's so that you could at least heighten the chance somebody else doesn't see the issue only instead...

---If there were a build that could tell what information was being sent & how the client's should've handled that data(what action should've been taken such as what it displays because of it, etc...) that might be able to show where the problem lies & what's received too...either due to data transmission problems(packet loss or whatever) or in-correct data being sent to the clients...

Or possibly something like icon corruption, etc... thats my only explanation on the possible problem occuring...

As far as I can tell though...the more of the game you have explored the more likely it is to happen(like the more icons that have been loaded up into memory or the like)

Also possibly after a few minutes of time(give) if this is associated to the 5 minute garbage collection of icons update....it maybe garbage collecting the icon & just not realizing it had needed it & doesn't reload it...
In response to Superbike32 (#9)
Superbike32 wrote:
---If there were a build that could tell what information was being sent & how the client's should've handled that data(what action should've been taken such as what it displays because of it, etc...) that might be able to show where the problem lies & what's received too...either due to data transmission problems(packet loss or whatever) or in-correct data being sent to the clients...

Any such data would be significant in quantity, surpassingly difficult to interpret, and probably useless without actually being in the debugger to see what's going on when it happens. Heck, at this point I don't even have a good description of the problem, which makes choosing the right debug info quite impossible. But since the easiest way to spot a problem and understand why it's happening is to be able to examine the data in real time in a debugger, this is why I'm a stickler for those numbered steps--or something close enough to let me reproduce it myself. If I can reproduce the issue in the debugger, there's an excellent chance I can understand the cause of the problem and fix it. If not, there is a very poor chance.

Or possibly something like icon corruption, etc... thats my only explanation on the possible problem occuring...

Inasmuch as you have yet to provide so much as a screenshot, I have no way to tell if that can be ruled out or not.

As far as I can tell though...the more of the game you have explored the more likely it is to happen(like the more icons that have been loaded up into memory or the like)

This also means that a debugging session undertaken without a strict and extensive testing regimen is unlikely to trigger the issue. In other words, logging in and wandering aimlessly is not going to do the trick. Remember that I'm usually unfamiliar with the games that come up in these reports, and certainly not a regular player, so I'm not gonna be wandering around for half an hour doing normal player things.

If it takes half an hour of play to cause a bug to occur, I'm willing to put in that half hour only if I'm guaranteed a bug and I'm running in the debugger where I can catch the bug in action. (And if I need to trigger on a certain point, it's common that I'll need to make several runs through. Often I'll see in the first run what's wrong, and I'll try to catch where it goes wrong in the second run.)

Also possibly after a few minutes of time(give) if this is associated to the 5 minute garbage collection of icons update....it maybe garbage collecting the icon & just not realizing it had needed it & doesn't reload it...

With the way our garbage collection and icon loading works, I suspect this is not the cause of the bug. But I can't guarantee that either, since again I don't even have a solid description of the bug to work with. Again, screenshots would be a big help.
In response to Lummox JR (#10)
OK I will do my best to provide any information which maybe helpful in a re-production & hopefully it can be tracked down...

Screenshots would show that some icons are just like if they weren't there at all, such as I can show a screenshot of what it did look like when it happened, but I can't neccessarrily make it happen again for a screenshot...

Where turf is though it dissappeared in the cave(full black)

Where the entrances dissappeared that square of turf dissappeared...but actually im pretty sure both are turf(stacked) and that it kept it as one object basically so im not sure why theres an issue(how only the top turf can dissappear if their supposed to be a WHOLE piece combined basically...

Maybe im not understanding good.
In response to Lummox JR (#10)
I now have a screenshot, and it seems a lot more dissappeared this time, I just started playing again after leaving it just on & was chatting for a while....

All the chat & such covered by purple & the taskbar icons/time is intentional, chat for players privacy & the taskbar/time just because what i'm running & when it happened don't matter...

BTW I have not changed my graphics card & or driver recently + others are having problems too...

This is the first time though this area has bugged(but im usually not at this area...)

Heres the link...

http://superbike32.freehostia.com/BYOND/Bug_Reports/ Graphics_Problem/

EDIT:More information...now the NPC's dissappeared to until I got closer to one off-screen then they all appeared again...maybe it's unloading it for whatever reason(recent update) but once i got close the whole file was reloaded, making them re-appear? that's my best guess at this point due to this occurence...
Tif? Seriously?
In response to Lummox JR (#13)
Is there a problem with it not showing or something? I will upload to another format in a few seconds if you want...

I have it set to tif cause it's lossless & I do a lot of work with graphics which need to look perfect, so I use tif for regular images or svg to produce crisp, clean images....
In response to Lummox JR (#13)
Just because even though you didn't respond, here is the .jpg version

http://superbike32.freehostia.com/BYOND/Bug_Reports/ Graphics_Problem/Pictures/Bug.jpg

In case you had problems or didn't like apparentally that it was .tif
.tif is not a web-friendly format. When uploading to the web, you must always use .gif, .jpg, or .png. No other formats are widely supported, and .tif in particular is barely even used anymore.
Okay, that image does seem to confirm there's something wrong with the icons there. We'll still need more details to reproduce, but the screenshot helps. A comparison to what it should look like would also help.
OK Lummox, I will do that, and as a note...all the icons that dissappear are related, their all in the same icon file(s) that dissappear at once...no icons in an area from the same file as one that has dissappeared is left rendered when the problem occurs, leading me to believe that it's a problem with the file loading into memory...or unloading but not re-loading either quick enough or doesn't call to load it at all, either after being unloaded or at all, under certain circumstances.

Anyways...I know .tif isn't the best for the web but I make my websites compatible at the moment for only Internet Explorer because I don't have as far a reach as BYOND & only need it to work at a few select computers...

I will show .gif's in the future when dealing with this issue though....

Anyways heres the link to how it should look...

http://superbike32.freehostia.com/BYOND/Bug_Reports/ Graphics_Problem/Pictures/No_Bug.jpg

Oh and as a side note there would likely be more black if it weren't changed how I did it...the trees where grass is partially showing(not a full tile) has grass placed under it & that grass is still visible fully even though the icon(also a turf actually) above it is no longer shown.

Only the full tiles of trees where no grass is visible below it & no grass was placed at that location is completely black...as for the water icon why it shows no grass is because any grass from that bordering water is part of the water icon itself, not the grass icon & nothing was placed under it so it makes sense why it turned black(as if you placed nothing there at all on the map)
I'm shocked IE shows .tif files at all. It really shouldn't allow .bmp files either, though it does. But you should at least check stuff in Chrome or Firefox too if you're gonna design anything in IE. Just stick to the three known-good Web formats and you'll be fine for images though.
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