k, please don't get angry with me or anything, but i'm getting pretty tired of all of these new chat rooms that keep popping up on byond games, i mean, it's good to have a variety and everything...
but seriously? :/ maybe somebody could host a new competition, to give people an incentive to make something more original. if somebody were to work on something that could amount to match a game like ss13 or cow rp then i'd be impressed. then again, they are veteran games, and maybe i'm not giving anybody a chance by dissing chat rooms and that. btw i have nothing against muds -b
ID:808493
 Jun 10 2012, 12:08 pm
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#3 Jun 10 2012, 1:31 pm
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BEFORE YOU CAN PROGRAM, YOU MUST CHAT.
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#5 Jun 10 2012, 2:56 pm
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http://www.byond.com/games/Jaredoggy/ElitistChat
It's the chat room that BYOND needs. But not the one it deserves. | |
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#6 Jun 10 2012, 7:23 pm
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I thought every chat on byond was an elitist chat.
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EmpirezTeam wrote:
I thought every chat on byond was an elitist chat. No amount of words can express my agreement with this statement. | |
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#9 Jun 11 2012, 6:23 am
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If you compare the ammount of chats & rips made every year to the original games made every year, you'll get 0.1% for sure in the original games.
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#10 Jun 11 2012, 7:11 am
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I especially don't understand this, as you could just host an existing chatroom yourself if you want it specifically for your team/friends/whatever.
Maybe not chatters, as configuring that was, and I believe still is, fun. | |
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#11 Jun 11 2012, 7:14 am
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It rolls out of the box these days actually. Possibly some teething problems with assigning OPs (the configuration seems overly complex for what it is), but you'll get a working chatroom by just running the DMB.
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#12 Jun 11 2012, 7:15 am
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Oh, cool.
So yeah, if you want a chatroom just host Chatters, making one is redundant unless you just feel like making yourself a level 10,000,000 GM. | |
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#13 Jun 11 2012, 7:29 am
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The irony I guess is Elitist Chat really works about as well, for the core function of chatting. *shrug*
One of the reasons for having so many chatrooms usually is a matter of over-analysing what goes into a chatroom. It's like commenting on artwork, it's great, because you can just say "I feel the chatroom should have X feature, or been implemented in Y way" and by and large ... yeah, maybe, I guess it could have been done that way? Except of course, the guy who's chatroom you are in at the time won't add your wonderfully unqualified feature, or didn't follow your design philosophy. And so goes "I shall make my own!". The other is of course, status. There are no prizes for working out why a bunch of chatrooms are named to reference their creator. This was even a theme with library naming at a time (s_damage, f_damage, whatever_else_damage) for what were functionally more or less the same thing. This tends to be one of the reasons why despite Chatters being open source (and actively processing patches), people aren't too forthcoming on patching it up with their ideas. | |
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#14 Jun 11 2012, 9:17 am
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People make chatrooms because lots of other people think there's something impressive about making one. People can say it's about building a better one (though if they wanted a better chatroom they'd use Skype, or some other program) but really people just make them because they know that other people will think it's impressive.
This is similar to the discussion about base icons. If you have 1,000 people ready to say "wow that's neat" when they see a base icon, title screen, or chatroom, this gives people a reason to make those things. If people only offered praise for complete and enjoyable games, we'd have more good games and fewer posts about base icons, title screens, and chatrooms. | |
Thing is, those things are so easy to make that people will naturally show them off. They'll show off the artwork of their game before even starting work on the game. Or show a small engine for a little praise and never actually finish the full game. I'm guilty of these too. It's hard not to do. It gives you a very short high of motivation.
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Fugsnarf wrote:
Thing is, those things are so easy to make that people will naturally show them off. People show those things off because they know they'll get praise. The fact that people think that posting a title screen is "showing off" means that they believe it to be significant and worthy of praise or envy. The problem isn't that people want to show off their creations, the problem is that most of these people are trying to create games and are somewhere between zero and one percent of the way there. People who are trying to show off their games are hardly ever in the proper position to do so. If the overwhelming response to those kinds of posts was "big deal, that's just an image, stop wasting time and make an actual game", it'd give people a more realistic perspective on game development and hopefully they'd realize how insignificant their progress is and stop making these posts (or at least wait until they have something worth showing). | |
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#18 Jun 12 2012, 10:19 am
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Actually when we do try to tell them that, tons of things happen:
1. We get called trolls 2. The comments get deleted 3. People who are as retarded as the person who posted the base defend them and tell everyone else they're not entitled to an opinion 4. The person who posted it goes berserk and calls everyone who didn't praise him an idiot So yeah. We've tried lecturing, insulting, mocking, and still our points go in one ear and out the other. I'm beginning to believe people are either developers or they aren't. It's an interest you have to be born with. You can't turn a childish anime obsessed kid into some development genius with paragraphs - they have to want to be a game development genius to begin with otherwise they'll never become that. My parents didn't sit me down and say "Son, you need to go to BYOND and start making games". It was something I did on my own because ever since I was in elementary school playing Pokemon Yellow, I had an interest in not only playing games, but how they were made. I had even went as far as writing a letter to Nintendo in like 3rd grade asking them how they made their games although my Mom wouldn't mail it off for me because she said they'd never respond. If a person doesn't have this innate desire to learn and develop, then there's nothing anyone can do. They'll keep making bases or narto rips until they get to that age where they think about sex and smoking dope more than anime and you'll eventually stop seeing them. | |
I don't think it's something people have to be born with but you're correct that it probably can't be corrected. This behavior can't be changed because so many people have reinforced it. When someone posts a screenshot of a mob with overlays and they get many replies saying "wow, that game looks awesome!", they'll think two things:
1. They have actually made a game. 2. That game is AWESOME. Though they haven't made a playable game and may have written as little as 20 lines of code, they believe themselves to be an awesome game developer. After a year of posting screenshots and receiving praise, you're not going to have any luck explaining that they haven't actually made a game yet because they only have a map and some overlays. These people have a desire to create games but they don't know how. They think they know how, which prevents them from ever actually learning how. In the extreme cases these "game developers" have made their minds up completely. Still, there is something we can do to help: 1. There are a lot of people who are on the fence. They think that making a base icon is the first 20% of making a game because that's mostly what they see happening - they don't have any reason to think differently about game development (aside from common sense and basic intuition). 2. New people will be introduced to game development through BYOND. These people haven't already made up their minds that they're awesome game developers because they posted a screenshot on a forum once. The more realistically people portray game development on this site/forum, the better these new users will turn out. 3. Get the BYOND staff to realize that the success of BYOND depends on creating a better game development community. If BYOND officially said "this is how you make a game" and gave a realistic view of how it works, even the most dead-set base icon developers would question their ways. The developers who still don't get it could be swept under the rug so the community looked better to outsiders. If a Java game developer was somehow considering switching to either Flash or BYOND for a project, one look at the BYOND forum would make up their mind (to use flash). | |
~Ndangerman