ID:1123878
 
Hey guys, so I was thinking about this concept for a while after some posts I read about BYOND games today.

Okay, so the verdict is that people don't usually like the whole "grind train verb, gain levels, and smash everything and everyone around you with enough time." So, I was thinking, if it was possible, and would the public be more receptive to... A completely (almost) passive-training process?

By this, I mean that at character creation, you have an initial build with "X" number of statpoints. But from there... Your building is ABSOLUTELY passive-based. Meaning that you spend time doing things (e.g. Standing under a waterfall to gain water resistance or something), in addition to using techniques and mastering them.

My question is: Is this more receptive to players today, to gain "power" through passives? I mean, relying on passive power calls for more skill definitely, or should I just get rid of the initial "X" statpoint build completely, so as to give players blank templates that are equal, which will allow them to create as they please?
I get your point as I have already thought about this a bit.
A few things to take in mind, if we would want to make a more realistic "training system", with passive effects AND active ones;

Health would increase passively as we age up, but can also be affected actively by our diet, our methods of living, etc...

Strength also increases passively as we age up, but if we never train our strength, unless we are genetically born as, we won't have much muscle or strength at all.

Resistance would increase passively as we run or perform physical actions that our body cannot maintain, the more the effort, the more the resistance we will develop.


Indeed, a player that needs to be grinding and smashing monsters in one hit to gain levels is too boring and will log out from our game sooner or later.
In the other hand, if we make our players increase their statuses passively, by just aging up and standing still in a random spot, we are also killing the fun of gaming and as happened before, we will lose our appreciated players.

Conclusion:
Neither one of the sides wins, as there is needed a balance between each one, in order to keep up the player occupied, while he will still be training if he parts into a story-line, or a secondary quest, for example.
Well, that's not exactly what I meant Fushimi...

I mean like, for example, a player testing combo attacks on a dummy would train a melee power passive, for example. But I do get what you mean when you talk about raising stats through actions. Would it be even better to have trainable passives, and when that passive is maxed, there is an overall permanent stat boost as a result?

(e.g. Player training melee combos on a dummy, a Hand-To-Hand combo passive increases. When it reaches its max level (Let's say 10, for example), the player gets +3 Strength to their overall stats. Its realistic that the player WOULD become stronger from tiring their muscles attacking an object.
The problem with this entire model is the focus on "Realism." Just because a game is more realistic doesn't make it more fun. There's a huge factor in game development known as the Suspension of Disbelief, you may have heard of it. Most developers on BYOND don't understand what that means. They don't understand that the suspension of disbelief doesn't mean explaining how magic works. It's a process of bridging the gap between reality and games.

Real humans don't have health meters and hit points, but we use them in games because we need an easy-to-handle variable. Players are willing to accept this without breaking them from the immersion.

The fact of the matter is that managing yourself in real life is a chore and often times very boring. Real life, unfortunately, involves quite a bit of grind itself. If you translate over to the game world as-is, you're only creating an extension of the boring normality of everyday.

In my opinion, the entire system of training, whether actively or passively, is a complete waste of not only your own time, but your player's as well. Watching your stats climb meaningless into infinity is as fulfilling as eating your own snot. If there's no sense of challenge or progression, then it's a total waste of EVERYONE'S time.

I understand that these are small BYOND games, not meant for anything massive, but anyone is more than capable of actually creating a decent and dynamic progression system. It's just a matter of how persistent you are and how much effort you're willing to put into your project.

In my opinion, if you're taking the time to develop a game, you want it to be perfect. This is going to have your name on it; Be your resume and show of skill. Don't be lazy. Don't be the 99%. Take pride in your work and give your players the best damn gaming experience you can possibly create.
Passive power is all well and good, but I think RPGs really shine when they have a great variety of abilities that players can use. Even if the fundamental objective of the game is destroying enemies, it's important to have different ways to go about it. That's where the "role" part of role-playing comes in.