their work is original.

King_LiOnZ wrote:

It isn't, show me proof that it's original.

Show us proof that it is not original.

I saw this project a while back, its great. When I see things like this it does the opposite to me, I get inspired to create something just as good or better.

FIREking wrote:

King_LiOnZ wrote:

Magnum2k wrote:

King_LiOnZ wrote:

It isn't, show me proof that it's original.

Show us proof that it is not original.

It's stated on the website that it's based off of this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandia_(video_game)

Which do you mean? The artwork, or the game concept?

The game concept isn't original either. Nothing is original if you really think about it.

King_LiOnZ wrote:

FIREking wrote:

King_LiOnZ wrote:

Magnum2k wrote:

King_LiOnZ wrote:

It isn't, show me proof that it's original.

Show us proof that it is not original.

It's stated on the website that it's based off of this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandia_(video_game)

Which do you mean? The artwork, or the game concept?

The game concept isn't original either. Nothing is original if you really think about it.

Lol. Ok? I don't think anyone cares about that. The debate was about the artwork. All games like this fall under a some sort of category unless its just wildy ambitious. Even minecraft, which is often praised for creating a genre, was a rip from another game that did it before them. And that game was based off of another game that did it before them, and so on. Everything in existence is part of an extension of something else. We are made up of atoms, and so is everything else. So one could argue everything is the same.

FIREking wrote:

Lol. Ok? I don't think anyone cares about that. The debate was about the artwork. All games like this fall under a some sort of category unless its just wildy ambitious. Even minecraft, which is often praised for creating a genre, was a rip from another game that did it before them. And that game was based off of another game that did it before them, and so on. Everything in existence is part of an extension of something else. We are made up of atoms, and so is everything else. So one could argue everything is the same.

Your two arguments aren't the same. One is about programming, the other is about philosophy.

1. For something to copy something else, there must be something to copy. If it is not a copy, then it is original. In order for a copy to exist, there must be an original. Therefore, everything is not a copy of another thing.

2. Monism (that whole atoms thing you posted seems to be a reference to that) is just a philosophy, and while we could debate what it means "to be", it's really not worth the effort. But you and I are the same, so you should already know what I'm telling you.

Anyone who is discouraged by this should keep in mind that these aren't just three random people developing a game. They are all game design STUDENTS. That means they paid to attend college and devoted the majority of their time their to learning how to program, make art, and so on. They did this with the instruction of *paid* professors - people who are experts and whose job is to teach others their craft or knowledge.

So, of course it will seem like they (the professional game developers) will out-do you (the casual, hobbyist developer). Perhaps they will. But I think that both approaches come with their own curses and blessings.

Consider the three friends working on their game. Unless they all have other jobs that they are willing to fall back on, they are depending on the success of this game for their own livelihood. It isn't just about having fun, its about having a career and being able to support yourself. Surely they enjoy this kind of work as they were the ones to choose it, and arguably it is more fun than accounting. However, at times it may be a lot more stressful than a job where you know what you have to do, you know you can do it, and you know your paycheck is coming at the end of the week. They probably have no idea what kind of profit they will make - it is possible that they will not make a profit, and all that time and money put into making the game will not provide them with food and a place to live. Furthermore their work isn't totally clear-cut. They must make difficult decisions (as many of us have) about the gameplay mechanics, about what content to include, about how to create a game that people will buy. So as much as their job is fun, exciting, and fulfilling to a creative person...it may also be stressful, frustrating, and insufficient to a human's needs.

Now consider a casual BYOND developer like me (and you fireking, YOU!) This isn't my job, it is a hobby. I spent my time in college learning about forests, the environment, agriculture, and climate change. I love working outdoors, which would not be possible if I decided that making video games was going to be my career path. Sometimes I wish that I had chosen that path but, with the help of BYOND I have been able to pursue my dream of making games without devoting my entire life to it. A lot of time and hard work, certainly, but not my life. Now, when I work on a project, there is almost no pressure. If I don't want to work on it any more, I can just forget about it and move on. If everybody hates it, that sucks, but I wouldn't be losing money because of it. I will want to make a game that people like, but I don't *have* to cater to any audience if I really don't want to. I can make whatever game I want, just for fun, and I'm not depending on that game to be successful and pay off in the form of actual money.

I've discussed the "curse" part of being a professional developer, and the "blessing" of developing casually on BYOND. However there is still an obvious blessing for the professionals - as you can see, they are very driven and highly skilled, so they are usually able to create quality games more quickly and easily than we do. And, since they do have a lot of pressure to create a finished product that will sell, they will be more motivated - especially in those times when they are sick of working on the game, is when they must think "well, this is what I love to do, and even though I'm tired right now I have to keep going."

The "curse" of being a casual developer is just the opposite. We are not as highly skilled or driven, we are not trained. Finishing games takes longer for us and the quality is likely to be a bit lower. And finally, since there is no pressure to finish a project except your own desire, we are much less likely to reach that end point. We have all seen the games people start and never finish, and we have all done it ourselves. It takes extra will-power to really push yourself during those times when you are sick of hunting bugs or making icons.

Moral of the story: appreciate the pros and cons of your position as well as the position of people who make games as their job/career. I think it's good to have a perspective on this difference, and as others have said you can draw inspiration from it. In fact everyone who has tried their hand at making BYOND games probably did so because they played professionally made games and thought "wow, I would love to do that!" Even though we are not as trained as those three friends, we can still produce good quality work. Perhaps more importantly, we can also be as motivated as they are, and with focus and determination, can push through the frustrating middle-of-development in order to complete a project. After all, BYOND games do have the potential to make a profit, and it's a pretty great deal that allows you to side-step some of the corporate-world crap that professionals have to deal with (like licensing, distribution, publishing, marketing, bla bla bla).

What I'm saying is...GET BACK TO WORK!

Nice post. I haven't stopped working towards my goal.