Tom.
Could we at least see a screenshot of the "new" front page or any just general design layout?
Tom wrote:
Vermolius wrote: This has been discussed in this forum before. It takes five clicks to get into a game from www.byond.com, and that's when you know exactly how and where what you're looking for happens to be, for example. I'd share more but I feel like I'm wasting my time since so much has been said before and there is a new design coming. I'll share more concerns, thoughts, elation (hopefully) then. | |
Vermolius wrote:
Tom wrote: In the current site, I see four clicks: www.byond.com -> Games -> Chatters -> Play Now -> Join In the new site, you can cut this to two: www.byond.com/games -> Chatters -> (Live link) -> Join Maybe we could even shortcut the last two if there is only one instance, or have a "quick join" link, I dunno. I think generally people will do three clicks since they'll click on the game to view the overview by default (we debated using the Play tab as the default but were met with some opposition to this by game devs). And of course the game won't always be on the front page. | |
Tom wrote:
In the current site, I see four clicks: Oh, you're right I counted www.byond.com. >.> In the new site, you can cut this to two:Are you automatically forwarded to /games if you're logged in when you browse to www.byond.com? Maybe we could even shortcut the last two if there is only one instance, or have a "quick join" link, I dunno. I think generally people will do three clicks since they'll click on the game to view the overview by default (we debated using the Play tab as the default but were met with some opposition to this by game devs). And of course the game won't always be on the front page. Right. I think a Play Now button should instantly find a server and jump you into a game. The only problem I see with doing that is some games will have player capacities and such, but I think we can telegraph when we're full and such nowadays. Then again, maybe I'm strange in thinking "Play Now" means "Play. Now." | |
I really would like to see the website look more like the Byond Art Society forums, with their nice color-scheme and setup.
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Games have an optional 'full' variable which is reported to the hub. So that could prevent people logging into a full server when they click Play Now.
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Tom wrote:
Maybe we could even shortcut the last two if there is only one instance, or have a "quick join" link, I dunno. I think generally people will do three clicks since they'll click on the game to view the overview by default (we debated using the Play tab as the default but were met with some opposition to this by game devs). And of course the game won't always be on the front page. Agreed except some avid users might join based on host, or server information (i.e. Decadance). In any case, I'm looking forward to the new site, Tom. I'm a web-design student working for the state of CA and normally get to look at very bland colors because we have to comply with color-blindness, so really any change I see here will be nice anyways (though I personally have never been a fan of the Orange/Blue schema). | |
Really the biggest problem I have with it is the color theme and rounded boxes. I can't be the only one who hates the blue and orange don't-want-you-getting-paper-cuts style, right?!
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Toadfish wrote:
Really the biggest problem I have with it is the color theme and rounded boxes. I can't be the only one who hates the blue and orange don't-want-you-getting-paper-cuts style, right?! Nope, a lot of people hate it. Hence, the change. | |
Tom wrote:
Toadfish wrote: I'm not 100% sure if I actually LIKE it, or if I've just kinda accepted it as what it is and gotten so used to it that it doesn't really matter to me. I kinda consider it the face of BYOND, and even though I was here before the current site, I can't even remember what the old one looked like (I think it was black and blue or something?) Anyway, I'm kinda impartial about the whole new design coming thing. Current one is fine to me, but it's not like I'm all disappointed to hear it is being changed. I'm sure the new one will take some adjusting and getting used to but will also be fine over time. That can be said for any kind of redesign though. My only one concern is what was suggested further down to have the main byond.com page redirect you to a games page if you're already logged in. That would be really annoying for people who actually go to the site for stuff other than playing games like me. I understand one of the major complaints that is being tossed around here is the number of clicks to get to a game. But really, the BYOND community is way more than just an entry point to a bunch of games. Focusing on that would be a poor decision in my opinion. There should be a way to still make the games more accessible without taking focus away from stuff like the developer forums and community pages. But then again, I'm probably not the typical BYOND user. And even if I was, I'll probably just go with it regardless... so yeah. Good luck. :-) | |
Because we're getting an update so soon, I'll be blunt: I can't stand the current iteration of the site. I know a lot of people warmed up to the new (maybe old by now) design, but I never quite got used to it. I know Tom and the rest worked quite a bit on this design, which is why I didn't "raise my voice" too often, but I really do hope I'm going to enjoy browsing the site after this update. I did see an early iteration of the new update, which looked like a major improvement, although it still had that horrid orange blue theme. I hope the final version changes that, too.
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Zagreus wrote:
I kinda consider it the face of BYOND, and even though I was here before the current site, I can't even remember what the old one looked like (I think it was black and blue or something?)Browse and enjoy: wayback machine. My only one concern is what was suggested further down to have the main byond.com page redirect you to a games page if you're already logged in. That would be really annoying for people who actually go to the site for stuff other than playing games like me. So what exactly do you do on www.byond.com? That exact page. Nothing, you just click away, that's what you do, trying to get at some of the actual content of the site. The point being that nobody that uses byond uses the 'main page'. I understand one of the major complaints that is being tossed around here is the number of clicks to get to a game. But really, the BYOND community is way more than just an entry point to a bunch of games. Focusing on that would be a poor decision in my opinion. There should be a way to still make the games more accessible without taking focus away from stuff like the developer forums and community pages. So you'd like it to remain useless to BYOND users? Currently it is focused on getting new users into BYOND, but once you've got an account and the BYOND suite, you NEVER need to browse the byond.com again. I suppose this is fine, but most websites don't take their domain name and shove it off for a subdomain or subdirectory. But then again, I'm probably not the typical BYOND user. And even if I was, I'll probably just go with it regardless... so yeah. Good luck. :-) | |
I recall the original BYOND site as well, and unfortunately have to admit I preferred it over this. No idea why, but I did.
However, I have some issues with your post Zagreus. Technically, BYOND (Build Your Own Net Dream) assumes a developer standpoint, and was clearly intended for that. So I can see why you would think it's a better idea to showcase development rather than the games. The reason why I believe this to be a bad idea is because honestly, the first time I joined BYOND, was to play a game. It's as simple as that. I had no interest in game making, I just knew that my friends were playing this game and I wanted to join them (~ 6.5 years ago). I've heard several stories, and several relate to the same case. To be quite honest, what I think would be best is this: Showcase the games primarily. Gameplayers (I'm guessing here) are over half the BYOND population, and therefore the majority. For a developer end, this should be advertised clearly and up-front, but still shouldn't take as much effect as the showcasing of the games do. There should be a complete section for developers showcasing all the tools, tutorials, related guilds, the forum, etc. that are showcased in this separate section of the site (that is easily accessible). In fact, the DreamMakers member page could be revamped to be the primary section of this new page. I understand the new site is rolling out here soon, so these suggestions will probably not even be considered, but I feel that development focus is the wrong way to go - and maybe the only reason why it's the wrong way to go is because BYOND is reliant on the Dreamseeker client. Who knows, development might become key when the flash client rolls out. In any case, I'm still excited for the new page. :) | |
I'm not really saying it should focus on the developer portion of the site, I'm just expressing concern that if it focuses too heavily on games or brings people straight to some games list, that it'll take some focus away from the developer portion.
It does not to be 100% focus on games or 100% focus on developers. There should be a balanced alternative such as the member home page. This is a nice balance because you have your watched games list, and online friends who you can see what they are playing, but you also have recent posts and community pages which could be either for developer stuff, game-related, or just random community chit-chat. | |
Zagreus wrote:
I'm not really saying it should focus on the developer portion of the site, I'm just expressing concern that if it focuses too heavily on games or brings people straight to some games list, that it'll take some focus away from the developer portion. The approach we're tentatively going with (and we can iterate this during a public beta) is to show the games page up front but have a link to "learn more" (which you also use to download the software). And from there, you'll see that you can develop games etc. Also, we do have a visible "Developers" link on all pages in the top menu (and we can work on making that stuff stand out better too). | |
Neblim wrote:
I show outside friends these forum trees and they immediately turn away and run. Just saying, it's been like this since year 2000, no? Yes, I like this kind of forum setup because it doesn't force you into "topic view" like most of the standard ones. | |
Tom wrote:
Yes, I like this kind of forum setup because it doesn't force you into "topic view" like most of the standard ones. Well, I'd say that's yet another case where you're in the vast minority, and the rest of the user base is turned off by your decided implementation to pointlessly drive us away from the standard. My comment | |
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
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Fair enough. We're doing our best.
What is problematic about it?
If he's a good designer, I'd welcome his feedback.