In response to Tom
Tom wrote:
CauTi0N wrote:
Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
That's only a tad disappointing. But, that's not to say that I dislike the idea. I can't wait to see it.

I agree - on one side, I'd much prefer single-player capability without porting. However, a plus is that you can make your game much more exclusive (if there is no dedicated host, of course).

I'd love it if we could port games, but the server is an order of magnitude more complicated than the client. Also, there are a zillion single-player Flash games, but, somewhat surprisingly, multiplayer is relatively ripe for a platform at this time. We'd better strike while the iron's hot!

Just wondering, is there going to be an attempt to add Flash server-side support on the backburner, or is it not going to be attempted?

P.S. Sorry for posting in a topic that's exactly a month old.
In response to SereneBluestone
To clear this up: The Flash client will be like Dream Seeker. It will not have any special features that Dream Seeker doesn't, or at least not yet. The Flash client will allow you to connect to games and play them without having to download BYOND. That is all.
In response to Warlord Fred
It will be more like a half assed version of Dream Seeker. Dream Seeker is capable of hosting, which the flash client will not be. Though I don't see why that's much of an issue, BYOND games shouldn't be single player in the first place - and having a multiplayer flash game is even more impressive, since there are very few in existence. Also, from what I understand, it may not even be capable of utilizing custom interfaces - which I can see being a game breaker.
In general though, having a flash client should bring in a ton more players, especially if/when its fully realized.
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:
It will be more like a half assed version of Dream Seeker. Dream Seeker is capable of hosting, which the flash client will not be. Though I don't see why that's much of an issue, BYOND games shouldn't be single player in the first place - and having a multiplayer flash game is even more impressive, since there are very few in existence. Also, from what I understand, it may not even be capable of utilizing custom interfaces - which I can see being a game breaker.
In general though, having a flash client should bring in a ton more players, especially if/when its fully realized.

The first iteration will most likely be limited as far as the interfaces go, but our goal is to eventually get full compatibility.

We'll do a post on this pretty soon.
In response to Tom
I hope so (hear more soon AND get 4.0 interface functionality pretty soon after). I've been thinking and attempting to align my efforts with what will be possible and having to think in terms of 3.5 is a bit of challenge to say the least. :)

ts
In response to Falacy
Why should BYOND games not be single player? Sounds a bit ridiculous.
In response to KetchupKid
The main purpose of BYOND is to provide tools to create and play multi-player games. The acronym 'BYOND' stands for Build Your Own Net Dream. However, single-player games are indeed possible, and game hubs can choose to categorize their game as single-player.
In response to KetchupKid
Out of the box multiplayer support has always been BYOND's main attraction. It helped bring in users when the internet was just taking off, and will now hopefully do so again since multiplayer flash games are just starting to emerge.
In response to Warlord Fred
That doesn't mean they shouldn't be single player, just that the environment allows and promotes multi-player. Also, almost all flash games(which are "net" games) are single player.
In response to KetchupKid
But Flash promotes animation and single-player interactivity.
In response to SuperAntx
I completely agree.
I only meant that it shouldn't be assumed that all BYOND games should be multi-player.
In response to Warlord Fred
But its on the internet and capable of multi-player(I'd consider that a "net" game).
I only meant to say that it shouldn't be assumed that all BYOND games should be multi-player.
In response to KetchupKid
KetchupKid wrote:
Why should BYOND games not be single player? Sounds a bit ridiculous.

Networking is built in to BYOND, practically the only advantage it has over other game engines. The only reason for a BYOND game to be single player is that the developer was too lazy and/or stupid to design and implement a few extra systems. Making a BYOND game single player means it won't be hosted, which means your hub will be harder to find. It also won't bring any new players to BYOND in general, unless the game is just so awesome that people think their friends should play it without them. Basically, there are a bunch of negatives to having single player only, and no real positives, aside from slightly easier development.
In response to Falacy
I meant that people shouldn't assume that all BYOND games should be multi-player.

And being lazy is not the only reason someone would make a single player game. What if my "net dream" was to make a single player game similar to Super Mario Bros. with more story? Should I make that multi-player just so that people won't think I'm lazy?
In response to KetchupKid
KetchupKid wrote:
[...] Should I make that multi-player just so that people won't think I'm lazy?

Yes, for that reason and many others.
In response to Falacy
Care to mention any of those many reasons?
Or are you going to stick with the lazy reason, that has no basis in an argument about a game that is meant to be single player?
In response to KetchupKid
KetchupKid wrote:
Care to mention any of those many reasons?

I listed several in my original response, feel free to actually read it.

Or are you going to stick with the lazy reason, that has no basis in an argument about a game that is meant to be single player?

The fact that you meant for the game to be single player doesn't make you any less lazy. Just shows how lazy you are to begin with. "Well I have fully handled networking, but instead of adding 3 extra systems to make the game work online, I'll just disable hosting". Even if all your multi-player entails is chat and a scoreboard, it will pull a lot more players than single player only, and make the single player elements of the game more worthwhile in the process.
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:

Networking is built in to BYOND, practically the only advantage it has over other game engines. The only reason for a BYOND game to be single player is that the developer was too lazy and/or stupid to design and implement a few extra systems. Making a BYOND game single player means it won't be hosted, which means your hub will be harder to find. It also won't bring any new players to BYOND in general, unless the game is just so awesome that people think their friends should play it without them. Basically, there are a bunch of negatives to having single player only, and no real positives, aside from slightly easier development.

Networking:
Just because its possible doesn't mean it has to be used(Ex:I could make all my icons 256x256 because its built-in, but no game I'm working on would benefit from it.

Laziness:
Already addressed this. If a game is meant to be single player, it should be single player. Not made multi-player to make it look like I worked harder.

HUB harder to find and bringing new players:
If I made a single player game who said the main goal would be to bring players to BYOND or that it would even have a HUB? I could make my own website, distribute and advertise the game myself if I wanted. Building My Own Net Dream has nothing to do with bringing players to BYOND or making it easy to find on the BYOND website.

Negative aspects of single player:
1. You will think the developer is lazy.
2. Only one player can play it(which is the way the game is meant to be)


If I wanted a single player game to be multi-player, it wouldn't be single player.
In response to KetchupKid
KetchupKid wrote:
Just because its possible doesn't mean it has to be used(Ex:I could make all my icons 256x256 because its built-in, but no game I'm working on would benefit from it.

If BYOND handled large icons competently, then that would be the case. But considering anything larger than 32x32 is just a poorly laid out graphical overlay, I would barely even consider that built-in. Plus, 256x256 is a bit of a stretch, but in general you could get much better graphical results with icons bigger than 32x32. That's a pretty poor analogy for networking though.

If a game is meant to be single player, it should be single player. Not made multi-player to make it look like I worked harder.

Making it look like you worked harder is the least of the reasons why a BYOND game shouldn't be single player only. Though, it seems like the one that offended you the most, so you must find some merit in it.

If I made a single player game who said the main goal would be to bring players to BYOND or that it would even have a HUB? I could make my own website, distribute and advertise the game myself if I wanted. Building My Own Net Dream has nothing to do with bringing players to BYOND or making it easy to find on the BYOND website.

If that's your goal then I wouldn't even recommend using BYOND in the first place. There are much better engines for making single player games, especially if you intend to advertise them on your own. Hell, even RPG Maker would probably yield better results under those circumstances.
In response to Falacy
I severely disagree Falacy. I think you are forgetting a prime example of good single player on BYOND, aka Regressia. There is nothing lazy about single player - in fact, I somewhat encourage more single player games on BYOND.

Anyways, yes, BYOND is more geared towards multi-player support, and one would be a fool to not admit that. However, if a game works better in single player, I say let it stay single player. Or (at the most), be like Minecraft and create a single/multi-player support switch.

As well, to provide another example of when single-player is not as lazy than multi-player would be an example of when AI is involved (i.e. Starcraft 2) - I would think the AI would be more difficult to program than simply play-testing with other users. Of course a multi-player only feature would be easier in this case, but Blizzard took the time to actually make the AI (and it's decent until you actually become a good player) for single-playing, and that in itself should pose a solid reason why single-player is not a showcase of laziness.
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