Stray Games

by Falacy
Because BYOND.
ID:1362123
 
I recently played 7 Days to Die. This game has already made over $500,000, and is selling itself for $35, meaning they've probably made millions more.

Interestingly enough, this game is almost 100% identical to Paradise Falls, a BYOND game that I made about 2 years ago. The only major difference? 2D vs 3D. Its good to have 100% blatant confirmation that no matter how good I am, and regardless of what game I make here, that BYOND only guarantees failure for its developers.

Even more fantastically for me, that game was made with Unity, an engine that I would be an expert with by now if I had stuck with it, instead of falling back into this pit. If I had made Paradise Falls with Unity instead of BYOND, I would have essentially created this million dollar project for myself years ago.

FML
That's actually depressing to read.

:|
You're going by it the wrong way.
Honestly I'm not so sure it's 2d vs 3d as much as it is adults vs. adolescence. For instance, I don't image BYOND is overwhelmed with an adult population. While a game distributed on it's own accord also experiences more adult finds than a BYOND game. Well, considering, I do suppose in the end you are correct as well. Adults would be more likely to play a 3d game over a 2d. Meh..
It also depends on how much you try to advertise and how professionally you go about developing/polishing your project. Something that even you have lacked, Falacy. This doesn't boil down to BYOND being a failure because it isn't 3D as you seem to be driving at. I mean, as much as people here don't like acknowledging its existence, SS13 is active enough that you could consider it "successful". It's the only BYOND game that I've repeatedly found threads/posts about outside of BYOND without looking and it's understandable why - It's the most unique and innovative game BYOND has, albeit not the most professionally done. This is coming from someone who dislikes SS13 to begin with.

Have some faith in willpower, Falacy.

In response to Kumorii
Kumorii wrote:
This doesn't boil down to BYOND being a failure because it isn't 3D as you seem to be driving at.

Every part of BYOND is a failure; the features (or lack thereof), performance, community, promotion, distribution, staff, and every other thing you could bring up. BYOND may have been a somewhat decent engine 10 years ago, when no other engines were even freely available, and 3D games were just starting to come into the forefront, but it has gone practically nowhere since then, and major TripleA engines have been released for free at this point. Even relatively simple, low quality Non-BYOND Games tend to have more players than the entirety of BYOND combined, this certainly isn't somehow the fault of every developer on BYOND, but of BYOND itself.

It is difficult to continually increase player counts when BYOND games lag in online mode at all times, and come to a grinding halt with 100 players at best. That is another reason leading to the "success" of previously populated BYOND games, and games like SS13; when character saves are irrelevant because there's no gameplay, you can just have 50 servers with 10 players each, instead of having 1 with 500 that lags into the ground because BYOND's processing and network are so poorly optimized, and it has no support for cross server existence.

SS13 is active enough that you could consider it "successful".

It wouldn't even make the top 100 list on Steam, and I don't think it makes any money whatsoever. It also barely has more players than HU had when FUNimation shut BYOND down.

It's the only BYOND game that I've repeatedly found threads/posts about outside of BYOND without looking

I've never heard anyone mention SS13, or even BYOND, anywhere outside of BYOND. External advertisement is difficult, since it requires players to download the crappy BYOND software to access your game. I have created my own standalone launcher and account system to avoid such issues, and plan on pushing this game on Steam Greenlight if I ever care enough to finish it.

It's the most unique and innovative game BYOND has, albeit not the most professionally done.

How is SS13 at all unique or innovative? It has no gameplay whatsoever, and incredibly low quality graphics - it is what every "successful" BYOND game has ever been; a text chatroom with irrelevant graphics. I suppose that's what you should expect when you're working with a "game" engine that was designed to make MUDs, and not actual video games.
Again with this?!
Every time, every freaking time you have a problem with BYOND, you do this.
Why?
Leave already, and stop trying to take people with you!
Obviously, the people who are staying, like BYOND.
You act like it's hard to notice the differences between BYOND and other engines, like the people using BYOND never heard of high end engines like Unity, or anything else.

Once again, JUST LEAVE!
In response to Ishuri
Ishuri wrote:
Again with this?!
Every time, every freaking time you have a problem with BYOND, you do this.
Why?
Each time it is made more obvious how maliciously worthless BYOND is, it seems relevant to bring it up. Why are you defending it when by your own admission you know how bad it is?

Obviously, the people who are staying, like BYOND.
Nobody likes BYOND. They may perhaps like a game on it, or perhaps some random people they've met here, but BYOND itself deserves nothing

You act like it's hard to notice the differences between BYOND and other engines, like the people using BYOND never heard of high end engines like Unity, or anything else.
Considering how poor pathetic and dead this community is and always has been, it must be pretty obvious for everyone to notice how much better everything else is

Leave already, and stop trying to take people with you!
Once again, JUST LEAVE!
When BYOND is permanently and entirely shut down, then perhaps this horrible stain on history can begin to be forgotten.
The majority of BYOND are players rather than developers.
In case you don't believe me, take a look at every fan game that has hundreds of players, with a dev team of around 3-5, and staff who can't develop.

The small portion who can develop, are obviously hobbyists, or just starting out.

If they're a hobbyist, then obviously BYOND is great tool for them to use to make small games. (Even though this is yet to be put to good use by some decent developers.)

If they're just starting out, then yes, BYOND is a perfect platform for them (and no, none of that BYOND teaches people poor skills nonsense, because it does.) and if they obviously want to pursue game development as a career, AKA attempt to earn money like 7 Ways to Die, then they'll have already been decently prepped for college.

The point I'm trying to make here is, everyone who joins BYOND, should know what they're getting into. A majority of games that are made, let alone attempted with other engines, haven't been nearly successful as some BYOND games here.

The people who choose to stay here either enjoy the games they're working on (and have no plans of porting to a new engine), are happy with the results, and/or see BYOND as a fit tool for they games they plan to work on.
You seem to think that everyone has the same opinion about BYOND as you, looking at your replies to other people. You should stop with that, because that's just bullshit.
In response to Ishuri
Ishuri wrote:
If they're a hobbyist, then obviously BYOND is great tool for them to use to make small games. (Even though this is yet to be put to good use by some decent developers.)

Because it lacks everything needed to be put to any decent use

If they're just starting out, then yes, BYOND is a perfect platform for them (and no, none of that BYOND teaches people poor skills nonsense, because it does.) and if they obviously want to pursue game development as a career, AKA attempt to earn money like 7 Ways to Die, then they'll have already been decently prepped for college.

I'm not sure if you're on the right page here, or if that was just a typo, but everything I learned from BYOND got thrown out in the first 5 minutes of college.

The point I'm trying to make here is, everyone who joins BYOND, should know what they're getting into. A majority of games that are made, let alone attempted with other engines, haven't been nearly successful as some BYOND games here.

Considering there has never been a truly successful BYOND game, and that the average BYOND game only ever has around 1 player, I find it hard to believe any other platforms could be any worse off.

The people who choose to stay here either enjoy the games they're working on (and have no plans of porting to a new engine), are happy with the results, and/or see BYOND as a fit tool for they games they plan to work on.

Or they think BYOND is easier to use (which is isn't), or they don't know that better options are available for free, or they expect BYOND to do things that it can't, or they don't care about the finished product, or 1,000 other reasons that have nothing to do with them thinking BYOND is an acceptable platform


Raimo wrote:
You seem to think that everyone has the same opinion about BYOND, looking at your replies to other people. You should stop with that, because that's just bullshit.

No opinions here, just sharing some facts
To each their own.
Okay, so a game has made money that shares the same idea of a game you made two years ago, you could have made it if you stuck with unity. That's what I've gathered from reading this.

May I ask then, why do you stick with byond and continue to cry, as from my eyes, if you think you can make a great game off-byond and get that money, go do it. BYOND doesn't force people to stick with them, so hell go back and start learning unity, and if you fail, then at least you tried, right?

Just stop whining here and saying everything is lost when you are putting no effort into achieving anything, face it you're using this as an excuse.

@Ishuri I consider Spirit Age as the only game that will savage BYOND. Maybe I am expecting too much out of it.

You are wise.


This made me realize one of the limitations of BYOND and opened my eyes about the neediness of Flash for BYOND! Before I wasnt really aware of this(dumbish I know) and always wondered why You(Falacy) and F_A always complained about Flash.

A lot of my defense for BYOND is from the "soon to expect" Flash client.
In response to Kryzaldo
Kryzaldo wrote:
Just stop whining here and saying everything is lost when you are putting no effort into achieving anything, face it you're using this as an excuse.

An excuse for what? This was more like a revelation. I've been wondering why my games haven't been the most epic successes ever made; they have amazing gameplay, appealing graphics, intuitive design, and yet barely playable crap gets 10000x more players and attention. It seems as though everyone who ever plays my games enjoys them, and yet nothing ever comes of it. This just made it very clear that the problem was BYOND all along.


A2J2TIWARI wrote:
Fortunately for me and Unfortunate for BYOND, one of the people on Pixelation pointed out something and said this,"It scares me out to install some software (BYOND engine) just to play the game.

Indeed.

Well I hope the upcoming updates turn out in BYOND's favor. However I also feel that once Flash and Exe features are released, most of the BYOND games will not be released on BYOND, at least the good ones.

Sadly, it seems they have completely abandoned any attempts to make a flash client (even though they have been claiming to have a functional version for years now), and the standalone exe maker they released is completely unusable garbage that comes with idiotic stipulations. Which is why I just made my own, vastly superior in just a few hours, GG BYOND.


Ishuri wrote:
A lot of my defense for BYOND is from the "soon to expect" Flash client.

Is there new news about this that I haven't heard? Last I saw, Tom pretty much said that a flash client would never exist.
@ Fallacy / A2J2TIWARI

I agree to some extent that Byond has it's shortcomings.

Marketing wise the fact that you have to install Byond to play Byond games is a drawback and hopefully that will be removed before long.

What I disagree on is there seems to be this notion that if the game had been developed on something besides Byond that you would have been successful.

It's not a matter so much of 2d vs 3d.
It's not a matter so much of the engine's features.

What it really boils down to, is your game marketable? Do you have the resources, and the connections to publish your game? Do you really have the drive and what it takes to make your game succeed and to spend a significant portion of time on promoting it?

Nestalgia at the very least tried to get on Steam Greenlight, they did a pretty piss poor job at it IMO. But they stepped out of the Byond platform and 'tried'. I commend them for that at least.

I'm currently on the developer team for a established Space MMO, that is in fact 3D and is actually a custom built engine. I'm going to tell you that the largest hurdle hasn't been making a good game but it's been the ability to market it.

Byond has nothing to do with marketing your game, Unity has nothing to do with marketing your game. "You" as the proprietor, as the entrepreneur are the sole responsibility for that.
In response to Drakemoore
Drakemoore wrote:
Nestalgia at the very least tried to get on Steam Greenlight, they did a pretty piss poor job at it IMO. But they stepped out of the Byond platform and 'tried'. I commend them for that at least.

So you say marketing is the most important thing, that if you do it, you will succeed, then provide an example of someone who has done it and is a failure?

Byond has nothing to do with marketing your game, Unity has nothing to do with marketing your game. "You" as the proprietor, as the entrepreneur are the sole responsibility for that.

Majority of meaningful marketing comes from word of mouth, and popular youtube channels playing your game. Almost everything else is irrelevant unless you have a million dollar budget for some crazy CG cutscene that has next to nothing to do with your actual game.

I'm currently on the developer team for a established Space MMO, that is in fact 3D and is actually a custom built engine. I'm going to tell you that the largest hurdle hasn't been making a good game but it's been the ability to market it.

Unless this game is EVE Online, I've never heard of it, so you must be doing a bad job marketing, and if the game was good enough, it would market itself.
7DTD is an epic game but is really laggy
In response to Bumblemore
Bumblemore wrote:
7DTD is an epic game but is really laggy

How you playing it? I didn't have any lag problems
Well... to start off, maybe you should ask yourself what the key differences are between your game and this game.

1. This game has a professional-looking website to present it, how is your game presented?

2. Which game modes does your game have? This one has 3 from the looks of it

3. What's in demand for zombie games nowadays? Are 2D zombie games popular?

4. The workload difference. If you were to try your hand at porting over to Unity or whatever.. do you have the ability to make 3D graphics? Do you have extra people to fill those roles? Are 3D games harder to develop than 2D?

5. Do you market your game as well as this one?

Answer those, and maybe you'll see the difference between that game and yours. I think you're right about one thing; Nowadays 3D gets the spotlight way more than 2D. Technology is moving forward and games are becoming massive in comparison. You need a team to create a commercial game anymore..

I think it's most fair to say what you're trying to do wont work with BYOND. So yeah, you should probably cash in and just move onto the things that will let you do what you want.

I think BYOND is better suited for RPG's to be honest :)
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