The Future of DM as a Programming Language.

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ID:151701
 
Aug 3 2009, 7:29 pm (Edited on Aug 3 2009, 8:32 pm)
My programming experience is pretty limited, but I have dabbled in C++, Java, Python, even Game Maker Language. But the only one I ever became motivated to get good at, and the only one that ever made logical sense when reading and using, was Dream Maker language.

There are so many good things I can say about DM but those are covered in other topics and also are pretty obvious.

But my discussion is, where is DM going as a language? I suppose it will always be focused around game making in general, and I think that is a good thing.

But, right now it is nearly completely focused on RPGs. Multiplayer or otherwise.

I know they are trying to keep it simple for non-programmers by giving a nearly complete RPG framework to code around. In a way...

I mean when you log on to any byond game the similarities are obvious from the start.

Do you think Byond will ever become something like a superior version of "Game Maker"? That would be neat. What I mean by that, is Game Maker's language is bad, unpleasant, and so on. While DM is completely great, but somehow doesn't create as "professional" looking games as Game Maker seems to be capable of. Game Maker also has potential 3d capabilities but that is irrelevant to this conversation.

What I really want is for an "advanced" version of Byond to be released, perhaps under a different name, but by the same people. It uses DM language but is just more...I can't even explain it.

Long story short, what do you think the future of DM language is? And what do you WANT it to be?

What is the development status of DM anyway? I know they are still updating Byond, but is there anything beyond that?

Here is one example of why I don't like most other languages. This is in C#, to do an if() loop I have to do this:
if (x > 0)
            {
                x -= 1;
                Console.WriteLine(x);
            }


Whereas in DM I can just do this:

if(x>0)
    x-=1
    src<<x
Aug 3 2009, 7:49 pm
All similarities are made by game owners. If done properly, the only similarity left will the fact that you play it on BYOND and lags :)
It's not powerful enough to support big projects, sadly

By the way. You should try C#, it's somewhat similar to DM
Aug 3 2009, 7:52 pm
In response to Ripiz
Similar? In what dimension?
And two, if it's lagging badly, that's mainly the programmers/hosts/both fault, due to a bad host connection and/or bad programming.
Aug 3 2009, 8:02 pm
In response to Vic Rattlehead
True, lags are usually because of host either bad programming. For example, GOA lags always, but if coding would get fixed, it can be hosted on 2 MBPS connection without lag. My connection is only 1 MPBS but I hosted 30 player game without lag, as coding was quite clean, while GOA starts to lag at 30 players and they have like 100 MPBS host.

Identation and etc is similar:
//DM
var/something=1
if(something)
   //something2

//C#
bool something=true;
if(something){
   //something
}

However when it comes to drawing it needs to be planned out very well. But all in all, who knows DM well, after week would be quite ready to start remaking BYOND game into C#
Aug 3 2009, 8:17 pm
In response to Ripiz
Ripiz wrote:
But all in all, who knows DM well, after week would be quite ready to start remaking BYOND game into C#

DM and C# are only similar so far as DM and any other programming languages are similar.

You're giving an example of defining a variable (necessary in the majority of programming languages) and an if() function, which is one of the functions that NEVER CHANGES.
Aug 3 2009, 8:31 pm
In response to AJX
I don't really know other languages to compare with them

However, I knew only DM, when I tried C# I understood it, however C++ was forest in clouds
Aug 3 2009, 9:37 pm
In response to Ripiz
In my opinion C# and C++ are infinitely more similar than DM and C#, but that's just me.

The fact is once you learn one programming language you can learn them all, just a matter of differing syntax..es....
Aug 4 2009, 5:43 pm
So does anyone actually have any opinions on the ultimate future of DM? Or opinion on what you would hypothetically want as the future of DM?

My opinions aren't very knowledgeable perhaps but I am more interested in the opinions of others.
Aug 4 2009, 8:19 pm
In response to AJX
AJX wrote:
DM and C# are only similar so far as DM and any other programming languages are similar.

Clearly, you've never seen COBOL. Also, most non-OOP languages won't fit into your assertion.

You're giving an example of defining a variable (necessary in the majority of programming languages) and an if() function, which is one of the functions that NEVER CHANGES.

He wasn't referring to the function of the languages, he was referring to syntax. The conditional was merely a block of code. Also, conditionals are technically not functions, but statements.
Aug 4 2009, 8:25 pm
In response to CaptFalcon33035
CaptFalcon33035 wrote:
AJX wrote:
DM and C# are only similar so far as DM and any other programming languages are similar.

Clearly, you've never seen COBOL. Also, most non-OOP languages won't fit into your assertion.

C isn't OOP is it? And from my VERY limited experience with C it holds many similarities with C++.

You're giving an example of defining a variable (necessary in the majority of programming languages) and an if() function, which is one of the functions that NEVER CHANGES.

He wasn't referring to the function of the languages, he was referring to syntax. The conditional was merely a block of code. Also, conditionals are technically not functions, but statements.

Duly noted.
Aug 4 2009, 8:26 pm
What I would like the future of DM to be is pretty simple:
The ability to package an executable that can run without the BYOND engine.

Why? Because making programs with BYOND is incredibly easy and I like them. :p
Aug 4 2009, 9:13 pm
In response to Ripiz
However when it comes to drawing it needs to be planned out very well. But all in all, who knows DM well, after week would be quite ready to start remaking BYOND game into C#

Or you could do it in a real language, like C++, rather than an enterprisey, memory-chugging, verbose, architecture-fail like C# (Java is in the same category). Taking a DM program and rewriting it in C# is a downgrade.
Aug 4 2009, 9:17 pm
In response to AJX
Object-orientation isn't necessarily a feature of the language - you can write object-orientated code in C. You can write object-orientated code in assembly. It's just a matter of whether the language hides the implementation details from you or not - you have to do all the OO stuff yourself with C. C++ hides a bunch of the details - point in fact is that C++ started life as a bunch of macros for C that made writing OO code easier. All classes are are some data and a table of function pointers - and the last bit can be left out if it doesn't have any virtual functions.
Aug 4 2009, 9:21 pm
In response to AJX
There's also different programming paradigms, although that's not terribly relevant to the vast majority of languages used in real-world applications. Regardless, take someone used to the imperative/object-orientated model and whack them in front of a Lisp interpreter and see how long it takes them to figure it out.
Aug 5 2009, 1:40 am
In response to AJX
Well, languages aren't really inherently OO in nature, but encourage the practice. If you want to do OOP in C, you can do it with structs and function tables. Try writing a python module in C, you'll notice the OO paradigm at work in at least the basic sense. C++ isn't particularly OO either, in so far as it's a feature available to you, not a mandated paradigm. Any valid C program is also a valid C++ program etc.

Where your assertion will fall down is functional and declarative languages, Lisp/Scheme is the most stark example I could provide that doesn't involve a huge amount of learning.
Aug 5 2009, 1:41 am
In response to AJX
I would actually much rather draw parallels with DM to python programmed by a Java developer, or ruby.
Aug 5 2009, 4:09 am
A BYOND oldbie is working on a 3D game engine whose scripting language is incredibly similar to DM, last I heard. DerDragon, I think. I just know the guy was supposed to create an awesome game called Maeva in BYOND and I never even got to see it. :(
Aug 5 2009, 4:48 am
In response to Ripiz
Dragonn wrote:
But, right now it is nearly completely focused on RPGs. Multiplayer or otherwise.

You must be doing drugs. RPGs? On BYOND? Where?
You consider the 10,000 spam training anime games to be RPGs? If so, go play Final Fantasy.
For somebody who made a Zeta rip and added cyber-sex rules, but won't admit all the code is all stolen; you really shouldn't be one talking about what DM is designed for/capable of.

I know they are trying to keep it simple for non-programmers by giving a nearly complete RPG framework to code around. In a way...

Seriously, get over this RPG stuff. RPGs are one of, if not the hardest, genre to design as a BYOND game (and a game in general).
RTS games are 1,000x easier, even the spamtastic anime trainers are easier than making an RPG.
There are probably less than 1% of BYOND games that are RPGs.
Unless you're somehow counting the anime games as RPGs, in which case every game ever made is an RPG.

I mean when you log on to any byond game the similarities are obvious from the start.

Yea, when you log in to rip numbers 1-999,999 they're all similar, what a surprise.


Ripiz wrote:
True, lags are usually because of host either bad programming. For example, GOA lags always, but if coding would get fixed, it can be hosted on 2 MBPS connection without lag. My connection is only 1 MPBS but I hosted 30 player game without lag, as coding was quite clean, while GOA starts to lag at 30 players and they have like 100 MPBS host.

lol if that wasn't the most epic BS post ever...
Though programming and host capabilities do contribute to lag (duh) BYOND natively lags, as I have proven in several different posts, with demo projects that usually contain little to nothing.
Having something as simple as a verb that gives you an alert("You clicked this verb") will show a noticeable slowdown over a network compared to being hosted locally.
At absolute least the 1-2 ticks it takes to send that information back and forth.
Aug 5 2009, 4:51 am
lol@"if() loop"
Aug 5 2009, 6:17 am
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:
Dragonn wrote:
But, right now it is nearly completely focused on RPGs. Multiplayer or otherwise.

You must be doing drugs. RPGs? On BYOND? Where?

I tried to make RPG, but it felt like everyone were on drugs and haven't noticed 5 posts "Looking for Iconner and Testers"
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