In The Haven Seed, I want to somewhat enforce the human need for sleep -- skill gain is only earned when you've had a chance to literally "sleep on it". This need is because Haven is just as much of a simulation as it is a roleplaying game, and because sleep is a good element of roleplaying: it gives the thieves a time where they can sneak around without rousing attention, and a dozing guard makes things even more interesting.
However, it's hard to justify a mandatory sleep period of 6-8 game hours per game day when most of that time is spent staring at a blank screen. Depending on the time scale used, this could be an exorbitant length of time.
I basically have three possible solutions, and none of them strike me as particularly effective solutions. If you have any other possibilities, or comments on these three, I'd love to hear them.
1) Schmoozin' While Snoozin'
Essentially, everyone who sleeps enters into an out-of-character "dream chat" channel where they can chat until their character starts to wake up (where they're given ample warning, so they can say their goodbyes and whatnot).
The problem here is twofold: one, people who aren't feeling particularly social will be forced into a chatroom; and two, there's no guarantee that someone else will be sleeping at the time.
2) Little Nemo in Dream Land
In this case, the player actually is "teleported" superconsciously into a dream realm where he or she can essentially do whatever he or she feels like. Different portions of the dream land are dangerous, while some portions are idyllic; dangerous areas are like nightmares, idyllic portions are like good dreams. Players can switch to other dream lands in the blink of an eye if they feel bored or disappointed with their current dream land, but they can't choose which dream land they end up in.
The problem here is that it would have to be a game in itself in order to accurately simulate the chaos and pure flexibility of dreams.
3) Idle Hands are the Devil's Plaything
The final solution I came up with is to give players pointless things to do, like little minigames integrated into the game itself, which aren't relevant to the game but are there to waste time. For instance, players could play a little Sokoban game or a 15-piece slider puzzle while they lack anything better to do. Once their character wakes up, they get back to business.
The problem here is that it's a total break from the concept of a serious roleplaying game.
ID:153141
 Dec 10 2004, 9:53 am
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Dec 10 2004, 9:56 am
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Hell Ramen
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I'd say 1), except make it like a big lounge where you can roleplay while sleeping. But, that's my two cents.
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Jiskuha's idea is great. Also, make it if you get a lack of sleep you're tired during the day, that'll make it kind of realistic. :p
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I like number 2 the best, though I have wanted to implement it into some things I've worked on as well and decided that the work involved in creating an accurate dreamland, especially if multiple characters can interact in the same dream, is not worth it unless the idea that what you've experienced enters dreams is dumbed down to the point where you have random monsters that you've seen while in nightmare and nothing great while in a good dream.
If such a thing were done, I think that would be about the farthest I would take it. Keep a list of some of the most recent enemies encountered and a list of recent areas been to (the list of areas would be very limited, just a few of the most recent places that you have been to have their general layouts recorded in a simple text string or datum format that can be recalled). Then you can randomly use some of the areas and randomly stick some of the enemies in it. This entire idea is like the region of dreams plane in Dungeons&Dragons. I will give a general overview of that in case you are interested. In D&D, creatures who sleep and dream enter the region of dreams when they do so. Each dreamer has its own dreamscape which bursts when its dreamer wakes, hurling any visitors that might be in their dreamscape into the nearest dreamscape. Dreamers often alter portions of the landscape in their dreamscape, though never consciously unless trained in lucid dreaming. Although dreamscapes usually burst when their dreamer wakens, some occasionally linger or survive permanently under unusual circumstances or magic. In extremely rare circumstances, a dreamscape ruptures, sending its pieces and visitors into other dreamscapes or onto the material plane (that is, the normal world where most people are). Objects from ruptured dreamscapes usually last 1 to 100 hours, but 1% of them achieve permanent reality. The region of dreams can be reached via the portal of sleep, which is used by sleeping creatures every time they rest. When they sleep, the consciousness of the sleeper is taken through the portal of sleep and the dreamer's dreamscape is created then the sleeper placed in it. Those who know they are sleeping can attempt to force themselves awake if they wish, though this is not always successful. Movement between dreamscapes is usually only done by those visiting the region of dreams by walking through the portal, using magic to enter and travel the region, or those using the lucid dreaming skill. Such visitors can move between dreamscapes and even attempt to reach the dreamheart, a roiling boil of dream-born landscapes that melt, burn, grow, and dissolve without any rhyme or reason which is the only place in the region of dreams where people can normally die. The lucid dreaming skill mentioned above is a trained skill that allows a sleeper to realise he/she is dreaming, change aspects of their own dreamscape or dreamscapes of others, or move between dreamscapes or to/from the dreamheart. I hope that gets your imagination gears turning and helps you come up with a solution. | |
I think I'd have multiple characters and then work in shifts.
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I see no reason you couldn't combine all three. A collection of very simple realms featuring odd puzzles and minigames with a dream-wide communication system. It could still be considered part of the roleplaying environment, if the players consider their dream selves to be a crossroads between their "physical" character and their higher being, ie: the player. Dreams can be anything, and usually are, I don't see why puzzles would affect the character when they're not really concious of the events. Just make sure players know that what happens in dreams aren't part of the character's memory. Roleplayers shouldn't have a problem with that.
[Edit] You could, as was suggested, mirror differnt places and beings on the dream plane, but nothing should be able to harm the players durring their dreams. Puzzles could be used as gateways to other realms, and you could give the players randome abilities from the game, and perhaps some that aren't, which would have no lasting affects. So, a bard could dream of being a mage, or a peasant could be able to fly. All the normal communication and mobility methods would still exist, unless you want to torment them in certain realms. ~X | |
An incentive to actually dream and participate, (instead of leaving your computer running for a few hours) is to possibly create minigames that change the amount of skill you had learnt during the day.
For example, if you had learnt "10" Blacksmith (let's be monotonous here), then you might be able to add 10% to it if you do well in the dream, giving you 11 when you wake up. | |
I say that dreaming should be passive with no direct player involvement...
Make some simple "movie" system... Write up some cheesy dialogue, or a random dialogue generator, slap the players on a small map, created out of oddly colored versions of the regular map objects, populate this map with random faces from their journeys (monsters, NPCs, simulacra of other players, perhaps), and have those random dream-sprites act out a scene or something... It can be as silly, and unstructured as you want... No need for anything fancy, or even anything that makes sense... Just randomness, with the possiblity of some sort of story... And then, when players are sleeping, they can just watch their dreams! Heck, maybe you can even "record" their events of the past day, and use them to construct the dream they have that night... Not an exact recreation, but find ways to symbolically include the things they did and saw... Or maybe throw in the random bit of prophecy... Hmmm, this is getting to sound like too much work, I suppose... But I think it'd be neat... | |
I'd say you should do Little Nemo in Dream Land. I know it would be hard, but it would be soo much fun.
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SuperSaiyanGokuX wrote:
And then, when players are sleeping, they can just watch their dreams! But what's stopping them walking away and watching a movie instead? | |
[Edit] You could, as was suggested, mirror differnt places and beings on the dream plane, but nothing should be able to harm the players durring their dreams. Puzzles could be used as gateways to other realms, and you could give the players randome abilities from the game, and perhaps some that aren't, which would have no lasting affects. So, a bard could dream of being a mage, or a peasant could be able to fly. All the normal communication and mobility methods would still exist, unless you want to torment them in certain realms. Yeah. I must've dropped the text while I was working on the post, but being killed in a dream would just make you wake up in a sweat, and being injured or doing particularly large actions would make your real character (rather than the character's superconscious) twitch, turn, etc. in his/her sleep. | |
I hope that gets your imagination gears turning and helps you come up with a solution. It definitely does. I already have a system of existence above and beyond the mortal plane, and that ties in swimmingly. <small>Cartman: Yeah, my period is going swimmingly too.</small> | |
You could make two different worlds, like when you dream, you're the same class and all but anything can happen. But when you wake up everything's back to normal. BUT, when you go back to sleep, you inherit your skills from your last snooze.
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Hell Ramen wrote:
You could make two different worlds, like when you dream, you're the same class and all but anything can happen. But when you wake up everything's back to normal. BUT, when you go back to sleep, you inherit your skills from your last snooze. ANYTHING? *You go to sleep!* *You lose all your items!* *Your stats are reset to 0!* *You die!* Hm, maybe you could make...a dream occur in a place, and if you progress through that place, you get clues. These clues/hints could be taken back to the waking world and be used to find secret dungeons or cities. Prophecies, but funner. | |
@_@
No, they're totally different worlds. You'd wake up being scared, yelling or something. Then, when you went back to sleep, your character would be remade. | |
What's stopping them from doing that anyway?
Unless it is made so you don't wake up until you complete your "task" (mini game or whatnot)... But I had the impression that Spuzzum had it on a timer of some sort, and he just needed a way for the player to kill time while his character slept... | |
Even at the low end of 6 hours, that's a quarter of in game time spent sleeping. A chat system will probably drive off quite a few players. Not that that's a totally bad thing: if your looking for a sociable atmosphere it might achieve just that. The same is true of just having minigames: some people will be wanting to play an rpg and not a series of puzzles they've seen 100 times and quit. I know I probably would (depending on the quality of the rest of the game).
What idea you should go with largely depends on what the concious portion of your game is like. If the players joined your game to play the rpg portion, that's probably the part they like. If you're developing a hack'm-up dungeon crawl then maybe make a dream dungeon with some purpose. If you're developing a heavily story based game, maybe advance stories through dreams. You could have players in tune telepathically to something in there sleep, and give them quests in that way. If your game is very achievement based (get a house! get a title! kill a unique monster!) you could have different sort of achievements the player could get in their sleep (get a dream house! get a dream title!...) Another alternative, based on a suggestion in another thread, is to give the player 2 characters: a main one and a secondary one. They'd play the main one for all but 8 hours a day. Then when that character is asleep they'd switch to a secondary one. Or even better, the 2nd character could be a different npc every time. You'd go to sleep, and while your character slept you'd play, say, a dragon. Assuming your game has a use for large events like monster attacks on towns or the ilk, this would allow players to participate. And as the main character went up in levels (or time played, or total skillpoint, however you're measuring it) they'd get to play the more powerful npcs or monsters. Just some thoughts. | |