ID:154454
 
I'm facing a dilemna.

First, the background. Quick history lesson: the term "nosferatu" originally refered to a form of vampire common to Romania that arose when parents who were illegitimately born themselves gave birth to illegitimate children. As a symbol of broken sexual taboo, the nosferatu was believed to be a seductive force in death, superhumanly lecherous and even fertile, capable of fathering children upon human mothers. The children were known as moroii or dhampyr, and were predisposed towards undeath.

In the 1890s, author Bram Stoker, looking for a word to describe a character of his that was a seductive Romanian vampire, happens across the word "nosferatu" in his researches, and Dracula becomes the first nosferatu in written literature.

In the 1920s, director F.W. Murnau misappropriates the plot to Dracula for a motion picture. In order to stave off lawsuits from the lawyer-happy Widow Stoker, he completely changes the title character. The sauve, elegant Count Dracula becomes the corpse-like, rat faced Count Orlock. He can hardly call the movie "Orlock," though, since he's seeking to capitalize on Dracula's fame, so instead, he entitles it "Nosferatu." Dracula is refered to in passing as a "nosferatu", but "nosferatu" is the title of Orlock's movie. Predictably, Count Orlock becomes the "definitive nosferatu."

In the 1990s, a publishing company called White Wolf makes a game called Vampire: The Masquerade, which features a variety of different vampire bloodlines or "clans". Despite having over 200 words meaning "vampire" in different languages, most of the clan names are complete fabrications, or taken from sources that have nothing to do with vampires. One of the clans, however, is called "nosferatu"... and it is not modeled after the traditional myth, nor the most famous literary example of a nosferatu... but that one old black and white movie and its imitators. Hundreds of thousands of gamers "learn" that nosferatu means "monstrously hideous vampire."

Now, the dilemna. I'm making a game that's sort of a vampire game... sort of, because the word vampire never once appears in it, in any form. Not wampeer, or vampir, or even my personal favorite, dhampyr. I am naturally inclined to use the term "nosferatu" to describe what most people might think of as the "generic vampire" race/class: tall, dark, human-looking, and preternaturally charming. There simply isn't a better word in the folklore for such a creature. At the same time, though, I know that people who play vampire games are going to be expecting something completely different. I honestly don't know what would be more work: finding a better word, or having to deal with outraged, offended, and confused "nosferatu" enthusiasts.
LexyBitch wrote:
Now, the dilemna. I'm making a game that's sort of a vampire game... sort of, because the word vampire never once appears in it, in any form. Not wampeer, or vampir, or even my personal favorite, dhampyr. I am naturally inclined to use the term "nosferatu" to describe what most people might think of as the "generic vampire" race/class: tall, dark, human-looking, and preternaturally charming. There simply isn't a better word in the folklore for such a creature. At the same time, though, I know that people who play vampire games are going to be expecting something completely different. I honestly don't know what would be more work: finding a better word, or having to deal with outraged, offended, and confused "nosferatu" enthusiasts.

Hrm.. That was a rather enjoyable history lesson!

Anyway.. Maybe have a rather informative history lesson on Login, and FORCE them to read it? Or something.. I'm not very helpful.

Thanks for the history lesson, anyway! I, too, took "nosferatu" as a stereotypical "long-fingered, large toothed, bald, ugly monster". Thanks for enlightening me!
In response to Vortezz
Vortezz wrote:
LexyBitch wrote:
Now, the dilemna. I'm making a game that's sort of a vampire game... sort of, because the word vampire never once appears in it, in any form. Not wampeer, or vampir, or even my personal favorite, dhampyr. I am naturally inclined to use the term "nosferatu" to describe what most people might think of as the "generic vampire" race/class: tall, dark, human-looking, and preternaturally charming. There simply isn't a better word in the folklore for such a creature. At the same time, though, I know that people who play vampire games are going to be expecting something completely different. I honestly don't know what would be more work: finding a better word, or having to deal with outraged, offended, and confused "nosferatu" enthusiasts.

Hrm.. That was a rather enjoyable history lesson!

Anyway.. Maybe have a rather informative history lesson on Login, and FORCE them to read it? Or something.. I'm not very helpful.

Thanks for the history lesson, anyway! I, too, took "nosferatu" as a stereotypical "long-fingered, large toothed, bald, ugly monster". Thanks for enlightening me!

Don't get me wrong... there's nothing wrong with using it in such a way. I mean, if you were to ask me what the definition of the English word nosferatu is, I'd probably come up with something Orlocky... that's how the word entered the English language, after all. I'm not arguing with the use of the word, merely predicting that my use of it in an older sense will cause confusion and arguments.

And yes, I'm planning on having some sort of explanation pop up for each of the vampire race/classes... I don't expect very many people to recognize any of them except for nosferatu and lamia, and certainly, very few people will all twelve (the number I'm limiting myself to, for now). I just know from past experience that A) very few people will read the explanations carefully, especially for one they think they know... and B) even if they do, that won't stop them from arguing about what they "should" be. Of course, I'm going to run into plenty of that in any sort of vampire game, regardless.
LexyBitch wrote:
Now, the dilemna. I'm making a game that's sort of a vampire game... sort of, because the word vampire never once appears in it, in any form. Not wampeer, or vampir, or even my personal favorite, dhampyr. I am naturally inclined to use the term "nosferatu" to describe what most people might think of as the "generic vampire" race/class: tall, dark, human-looking, and preternaturally charming. There simply isn't a better word in the folklore for such a creature. At the same time, though, I know that people who play vampire games are going to be expecting something completely different. I honestly don't know what would be more work: finding a better word, or having to deal with outraged, offended, and confused "nosferatu" enthusiasts.

I would tend to think that if the word "nosferatu" appears in the game title, it would cause much more of a schism than if it just appeared as the name of a race or in descriptions within the game itself.

If it's part of the game, those who play will learn and adapt, but the first impression caused by having it in the title would more likely bring in people looking for Orlock.

/mob/skysaw
Depending on how you title and describe your game, I think a good chuck of the players will be V:tM fans. With that in mind, I'd cater to them. People in general, really, will most likely take the Orlock view of "nosferatu". Case in point--did anyone here but you know the actual origins?

This is probably wrong information, but I read once that "nosferatu" is Rumanian for "plague-bearer," hence the rat-like appearance of Count Orlock. That information doesn't seem to fit perfectly with yours, though.
And now that I think about it, Rumanian is a mostly Romantic language. Since pestus (or something like that) is Latin for "plague", it seems unlikely that "nosferatu" could mean "plague-bearer." It could stem from Rumanian's slavic influences, though.


You may have already seen this site before, but http://www.pathwaytodarkness.com/ is a most excellent vampire resource site. Considering your apparently vast knowledge of the subject, it might not have anything new to you, but I feel the need to share the resource anyway.

-AbyssDragon
In response to AbyssDragon
AbyssDragon wrote:
Depending on how you title and describe your game, I think a good chuck of the players will be V:tM fans. With that in mind, I'd cater to them. People in general, really, will most likely take the Orlock view of "nosferatu". Case in point--did anyone here but you know the actual origins?

The name of the game will either be Restless, or Elysium. I'm definitely not trying to cater to V:tM fans... in fact, as happy I will be with any players... I'd prefer not to attract any V:tM fans. In my experience, the average World of Darkness player has a hard time appreciating any vision of their chosen supernatural being that doesn't agree with the WoD vision. (One of my roommates has a particularily irksome strain of this... I've given up on getting her to play any non-V:tM vampire roleplaying games, because she expects/insists on using V:tM terminology, behaves at all times as though V:tM rules and mechanics are in play, and becomes indignant when her character is injured because she wasn't allowed to "burn blood" or "use celerity.")

This is probably wrong information, but I read once that "nosferatu" is Rumanian for "plague-bearer," hence the rat-like appearance of Count Orlock. That information doesn't seem to fit perfectly with yours, though.
And now that I think about it, Rumanian is a mostly Romantic language. Since pestus (or something like that) is Latin for "plague", it seems unlikely that "nosferatu" could mean "plague-bearer." It could stem from Rumanian's slavic influences, though.

Actually, that information meshes with mine, which suggests that the word comes not from Latin but from the Greek "nosphoros", via the Balkans. So, yes, I'm definitely not arguing with using the word to refer to the diseased verminesque vampires. As far as I can tell, the plague or taint that nosferatu refers to is the taint of vampirism and illegitimacy. The image of vampires comes from medieval (plague-era) woodcarvings done more in western Europe, where they didn't have words like "nosferatu." The modern conception is basically a matter of seeing these cool-looking monsters in the medieval art, needing a separate word to refer to them (since vampire is supposed to bring a different image to mind) and having this handy word which happens to mean "plague bearer" and "vampire," and which happens to have been immortalized by a movie depicting such a creature.

You may have already seen this site before, but http://www.pathwaytodarkness.com/ is a most excellent vampire resource site. Considering your apparently vast knowledge of the subject, it might not have anything new to you, but I feel the need to share the resource anyway.

-AbyssDragon

I'll probably check it out, but not for this game... I already have the sources I want. The thing about a subject like this is that you can find sources that say anything you want, because it's such a rich, universal topic. The arguments for the vermin/nosferatu, for instance, are perfectly valid... just not what I want for my game.
In response to LexyBitch
LexyBitch wrote:
The name of the game will either be Restless, or Elysium. I'm definitely not trying to cater to V:tM fans... in fact, as happy I will be with any players... I'd prefer not to attract any V:tM fans.

I would go with Restless if you want to avoid V:tM fans. Elysium is a familiar term to WoD gamers and will draw them like a moth to a flame.

In my experience, the average World of Darkness player has a hard time appreciating any vision of their chosen supernatural being that doesn't agree with the WoD vision. (One of my roommates has a particularily irksome strain of this... I've given up on getting her to play any non-V:tM vampire roleplaying games, because she expects/insists on using V:tM terminology, behaves at all times as though V:tM rules and mechanics are in play, and becomes indignant when her character is injured because she wasn't allowed to "burn blood" or "use celerity.")

It's just like the people who play AD&D and reject conflicting veiws of druids, no matter how inaccurately D&D portrays them. (I like D&D druids as they are. I'm just pointing out that the term isn't accurate in traditional folklore, much like "nosferatu".)

I'd like to narrow the focus of your generalization just a tiny bit. People who have experienced other RPGs before playing V:tM don't seem to suffer from this role playing disorder.
In response to Shadowdarke
Shadowdarke wrote:
LexyBitch wrote:
The name of the game will either be Restless, or Elysium. I'm definitely not trying to cater to V:tM fans... in fact, as happy I will be with any players... I'd prefer not to attract any V:tM fans.

I would go with Restless if you want to avoid V:tM fans. Elysium is a familiar term to WoD gamers and will draw them like a moth to a flame.

In my experience, the average World of Darkness player has a hard time appreciating any vision of their chosen supernatural being that doesn't agree with the WoD vision. (One of my roommates has a particularily irksome strain of this... I've given up on getting her to play any non-V:tM vampire roleplaying games, because she expects/insists on using V:tM terminology, behaves at all times as though V:tM rules and mechanics are in play, and becomes indignant when her character is injured because she wasn't allowed to "burn blood" or "use celerity.")

It's just like the people who play AD&D and reject conflicting veiws of druids, no matter how inaccurately D&D portrays them. (I like D&D druids as they are. I'm just pointing out that the term isn't accurate in traditional folklore, much like "nosferatu".)

I'd like to narrow the focus of your generalization just a tiny bit. People who have experienced other RPGs before playing V:tM don't seem to suffer from this role playing disorder.

Sadly enough, the fanaticism of players for both of these systems is easily eclipsed by your average Final Fantasy fanboy (or those of any other popular or often even unpopular Japanese-based console RPG series).
In response to Shadowdarke
Shadowdarke wrote:
LexyBitch wrote:
The name of the game will either be Restless, or Elysium. I'm definitely not trying to cater to V:tM fans... in fact, as happy I will be with any players... I'd prefer not to attract any V:tM fans.

I would go with Restless if you want to avoid V:tM fans. Elysium is a familiar term to WoD gamers and will draw them like a moth to a flame.

Is it? I didn't realize... that's a shame, because I was leaning towards Elysium as a title.

I'd like to narrow the focus of your generalization just a tiny bit. People who have experienced other RPGs before playing V:tM don't seem to suffer from this role playing disorder.

Very true. It's for this reason that I reject the argument that WoD is the new "gateway" RPG like D&D use to be. Many D&D users would go on to better, more complicated, and/or more realistic things... but most people who come to roleplaying through WoD seem content to stay where they are.