Stray Games

by Falacy
Because BYOND.
Thank you for admitting you don't know what you are talking about before you open your mouth and libel others.

I don't think you realize how stupid it was for you to say that. You haven't upgraded to a version of BYOND that's even remotely capable of playing the games you talk shit on, so you have no possible basis of knowledge about anything you are talking about.

Further, it's absolutely hilarious for someone to be so angry about "scams" when they supported themselves monetarily in violation of numerous laws through copyright infringement, outright theft, and fraud.

To top it off, you bitch about the engine's capabilities and talk about CPU usage when since the "scam" version you complain about has come about, Lummox has fixed massive bugs in the engine at the request and investigation of their userbase that have improved the capabilities of the engine massively. You even bitch about people not using the features you requested when in fact you yourself can't use several of the features you requested because they came out in versions after the ads for nonmembers came about.

Now I know why your programming skills suck so bad. You can't logic at all. You just plain think backward.
I made that same "admission" several posts ago =P
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:
I made that same "admission" several posts ago =P

That makes it worse, not better. You openly admit that you are a charlatan, but do nothing to fix it.

Pot<->Kettle so incredibly hard right now.

I'm done grinding your shitty little face in the dirt. There wasn't enough of your reputation left to tarnish in the first place, and nobody worth a damn listens to what you have to say anyway.
In response to Ter13
Ter13 wrote:
There wasn't enough of your reputation left to tarnish in the first place, and nobody worth a damn listens to what you have to say anyway.

Since nobody around here is worth anything, that would be impossible in any case =D
Sad to say, I used to respect Falacy long ago because despite being an ass on the forums(not as big of one as he is now), he used to create fun games. I can understand you're upset about your "wasted time" here on BYOND but what are you doing now exactly? You are the one coming here and "wasting time" again. Nobody is forcing you to come here and post. Though I don't agree with many of the decisions the BYOND staff have made throughout the years, they have been at least working on adding many features that BYOND has needed for a while and fixing many issues that have held potential games back. I'm not surprised that Lummox banned you from his page after reading everything you posted. You need to grow up. At least know what you're talking about.
In response to MDC
MDC wrote:
Sad to say, I used to respect Falacy long ago because despite being an ass on the forums(not as big of one as he is now), he used to create fun games.

This seems to be a good summary of the problem here. I was "respected" before, not for any of the reasons that actually mattered, but because a relatively low quality game - though still far better than anything else on BYOND - was pulling in more players than practically everything else on BYOND combined. This died, through no real actions of my own, and somehow that made my completely valid points, possibly more grumpily presented, no longer valid. You'd probably be surprised how many times Tom practically begged me for help in the high times, and how quickly he hit the ban button when I was no longer /carrying his platform.

It takes time to build a game, when its not a Zeta rip, it took around 5 years before I had anything "successful" going on BYOND, HU was on version 1200something before it took off. Box Zombies has been in on/off production for around 3 years, and its only on version 70.

Box Zombies is a far better game at its core, likely than anything BYOND will ever have for comparison, and the players seem well aware of this, I have only heard amazing feedback. However, it is lacking what I like to refer to as "hats", both literal and figurative, which is leading to low playtime sessions and practically no player retention. An update not too long ago, which added 5 literal hats to the game, seemed to nearly triple player session time, and a simple Clicker mode, created in less than a week (though not 100% finished yet), seems to have not only lead to huge increase in session time (probably another tripling of it), but also much higher retention. Another simple change, which menu is displayed when you attempt to enter a dungeon, also seems to have helped. These were all incredibly quick and simple-to-do updates, with huge results, its all about finding the right sparkle, which takes a lot of luck, and/or some magic fairy dust.
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:
MDC wrote:
Sad to say, I used to respect Falacy long ago because despite being an ass on the forums(not as big of one as he is now), he used to create fun games.

This seems to be a good summary of the problem here. I was "respected" before, not for any of the reasons that actually mattered, but because a relatively low quality game - though still far better than anything else on BYOND - was pulling in more players than practically everything else on BYOND combined.

You were respected because you actually did something with the engine and submitted feature requests and gave your opinion on what could and should be improved. You lost all of that respect(which I doubt you even care) because of this snobby little kid attitude you're showing right here for NO good reason at all. Grow up.

You'd probably be surprised how many times Tom practically begged me for help in the high times, and how quickly he hit the ban button when I was no longer /carrying his platform.

You aren't the only person that Tom has ever asked for help. The reasons for your ban are completely justified. You want to act like a dick, you get treated like one, just like the many other people that have been banned before(and unbanned because they realized it).

It takes time to build a game, when its not a Zeta rip, it took around 5 years before I had anything "successful" going on BYOND, HU was on version 1200something before it took off. Box Zombies has been in on/off production for around 3 years, and its only on version 70.

You're absolutely right. This is why the project I'm working has been started a bit over five years ago and is still being worked on. Quality takes time.

Box Zombies is a far better game at its core, likely than anything BYOND will ever have for comparison, and the players seem well aware of this, I have only heard amazing feedback.

And this is where(once again).. Nevermind, you won't get it :P

There are many games that are a lot better than Box Zombies, but you can believe what you want. You're here to throw tantrums and nothing more. Grow up and maybe you'd get unbanned and could learn a thing or two from some of the people here. To be honest, I don't like most of the BYOND community myself nor how BYOND has been handled over the years, but that's another story. All I can say is that if you really try and look for them, there are a few gems here that could and would help you out if you would stop being an ass. I enjoyed many of your games, especially Bleach Eternity, and I would even go as far to say that when you released it, it was one of the best games on here. But despite all of this, you basically fuck it up for yourself with your "I'm the best programmer here" and "This is better than anything else that could ever be made on BYOND". I've seen your code, as have many other people and you sir have much room for improvement. You're not even close to being the best. Not to say that you're bad, but you're not great either.
In response to MDC
Just because someone has an attitude, it doesn't mean they're not correct. Respect is not a prerequisite for understanding the flaws of this engine.

"The best" games are a matter of opinion. Personally, I think Falacy has made the best games on here. When I look at the front page, I see glorified chat rooms. When I look at Falacy's games, I see games.
In response to Lugia319
What is he correct about exactly? Yes BYOND staff have made very shitty decisions in the past, yes things could/should have been handled a lot better. But when it comes to talking about the engine and how to use it, where exactly is he correct? Nowhere. To make this even easier, put your code where your mouth is. He can make all the claims he wants about CPU usage, etc but I'm 100% positive his claims will get shut down by someone who knows how to actually write code.

I get that BYOND has made a ton of mistakes but the whole "Blame BYOND for my shitty code" is getting old. I've seen it from Falacy and many other developers. They're not wrong in the fact that things can be more efficient, but it all starts with how efficient they are themselves. But I'm sure tying every key to an object to display onscreen text is definitely BYOND's fault for being inefficient. Attitude is one thing, but when making claims at least back your shit up.

@Lugia: I agree with you, I enjoyed Falacy's games as well. I played Bleach Eternity since the first day it was released and even threw a few bucks his away on multiple accounts because of the fun the game brought to me. I never said he made horrible games, I'm just saying that he's blaming the engine 100% and pretending like none of his code could be made any more efficient when in fact most of his code could be.
In response to MDC
MDC wrote:
You were respected because you actually did something with the engine

I still do this. I set practically every standard here for the last decade. My games had macros, interfaces, HUDs/maptext, big icons, and countless other things before the engine itself supported them. Hell, half the games here are still RP text chat rooms that don't make use of any of these features. Not to mention the crusade I had to go on just to get pixel movement implemented, and the huge slew of improvements that came along with it, like icons bigger than 32x32, which is probably the only commonly used feature ever added.

and submitted feature requests and gave your opinion on what could and should be improved.

They removed the feature tracker, then they banned me, they don't want to be told how bad they are at their jobs. For years I kept Tom and his incompetence in check. FUNimation shutdown happened, he banned me, he ran off thinking he could do things on his own. Very first big thing he does without me to slap him around? Removes practically every feature from the website AND increases memberships costs, at the same time. A few years later, he has conceded, after his incompetence ran this engine into the ground, he has now abandoned it.

The reasons for your ban are completely justified. You want to act like a dick, you get treated like one, just like the many other people that have been banned before.

The problem is, my bans weren't justified, and even more sadly, your claims about how the admins of BYOND work, are far from the truth. You can be the biggest dick (to use your word) you want around here, as long as you don't direct that attitude towards the 12 year old "volunteer" admins with a ban button. I have seen so many malicious, offensive, belligerent trolls, with nothing ever done about them. But make any kind of negative comment, directed even vaguely towards an admin, and your perma ban is secured.

There are many games that are a lot better than Box Zombies, but you can believe what you want.

Show me a single game on BYOND that is better than Box Zombies. In fact, show me a single game on BYOND that would even qualify as an actual game. Lets say, one that could be ported to a console, as a good baseline.

What is he correct about exactly?

Everything

He can make all the claims he wants about CPU usage, etc but I'm 100% positive his claims will get shut down by someone who knows how to actually write code.

Everyone acts as though I've never posted code, or helped others code, or proven that I can, with a huge catalog of releases. While at the same time, claiming to have seen my code. In which case, I assume they were trying to rip HU or something, looking at de-compiled, admittedly horrible code from a decade ago when I was self taught - from a terribly designed language - and had no clue what I was doing? I now have a degree in programming, experience with multiple languages, was even a C++ professor for a short while, I guarantee I can program circles around anyone else here.

I get that BYOND has made a ton of mistakes but the whole "Blame BYOND for my shitty code" is getting old. I've seen it from Falacy and many other developers.

That's because, in 99.9% of cases, it is BYOND's fault. Know what the most expensive thing in Box Zombies is right now? A simple system to add outlines around maptext, using underlays, this is using nearly 100x more CPU than anything else in the game, and there is no better way to handle it. Not even going into how buggy maptext is, or how my own "maptext" systems had almost zero performance overhead to begin with - never should have transitioned. Here's a quick list of other things you can't use in BYOND:
Path Finding: On top of performance issues, it doesn't even work properly with pixel movement
Icon Operations: This one is arguable nowadays, since icon operations have been offloaded to the client, and in 500+ there's even some native support for such things, but once upon a time, a simple icon+=rgb() color shift would easily be the most expensive thing in a game
view(): nonsensically expensive for what it does
Transparency: The engine can't render transparent graphics efficiently, this destroys performance on some (most?) machines.
Saving Icons: This is a somewhat understandable issue, but the engine handles it terribly, trying to save them by default, even ones that are compiled in.
Del(): Garbage collection is a common concern on most platforms, but I still complain. I would be willing to bet this is one of, if not the most expensive thing in every game currently on BYOND, devs just aren't aware of it, because the profiler sucks and doesn't catch Del by default.
=list(): Primarily, if you have them being created at compile time on a grand scale, like a few on atoms.
Move(): that's right, basic movement, especially in pixel based games.
I could keep going forever? The problem with BYOND, is that it wasn't designed to be a videogame engine, it was designed to be a MUD engine, and just kinda pretends it can do more. Likely why practically every successful game on BYOND has been text focused, and why none of them have been very successful in the grand scheme of things. Putting a top hat on doesn't make you British.

Now for a quick list of things that developers can erroneously do to generate CPU:
Inefficient loops
That's about it

I'm just saying that he's blaming the engine 100% and pretending like none of his code could be made any more efficient when in fact most of his code could be.

HU2, based on its peak, with 50+ players online, was capable of holding 1,000 without experiencing world.cpu related performance issues. I know what I'm doing, nobody else does, stop defending BYOND.
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