ID:1879423
 
So someone just recently told me "Why don't you contribute to BYOND by making a game"? And you know, I thought about it. Then I realized that statements like this are entirely flawed and aren't really a good response if you're arguing with someone. It's like talking about how you don't want to eat Taco Bell's new enchilada because you read that all of this stuff is in it and you don't want that in your body and to convince you to eat the enchilada, they tell you, "Well why don't you just eat it". But it runs deeper than that.

I've been a part of a few gaming communities, and I've seen them all fall. Maybe I'm the new Gandalf and I just bring trouble Though to be fair, Gandalf always came when his help was needed, being part angel and all that so it's more like Gandalf came when trouble was abound to stop it, not Gandalf brought it with him. But enough LOTR Lore.

So BYOND is like a middle school dance (our target age demographic is like 12-24, right?) and it's like everyone is standing around waiting for the first person to dance. You're drinking your punch and this other guy comes around and says, "Yo, why don't you dance?"

For me, the answer is, "Well, quite frankly, I don't feel like dancing". "Why are you at this dance if you don't want to dance?" "I actually like the environment and my friends are here, so I'll let them dance but I won't dance myself". "YOU AINT ALLOWED TO BE HERE IF YOU DON'T DANCE". What?

But for others, there could be many other reasons. Maybe they work a lot and they're only here for enough time for a half dance and don't feel like committing. Working two jobs is tough. They just don't have the time to stop and dance whenever you'd like them to. Others? Maybe they don't know how and they'd prefer to be taught first. So they'll watch other people dance for a while, and then join in when they're ready. You can't keep pushing these people to dance before they're ready. It just makes you out to be a jerk.

But both of these types of people will get a full dance in one way or another with time. Just leave them to their devices. But you know who's the most guilty of not dancing? The person telling other people to dance. Because instead of dancing and showing people how fun it is to dance, they just skirt the walls of the room, trying to bully people into dancing when they don't want to right now. I feel like everyone is just turning to their neighbor and saying, "Why don't you dance?" and no one is dancing because they want someone else to dance first. True, some people say, "If we had different music playing, maybe I'd dance". But that just leaves you with two options, change the music to get them to dance, or just let them not dance. There's nothing wrong with not dancing at the dance. Lord knows I didn't dance at my prom, just posed for pictures and talked to friends.

Moral of the story: Not everyone can dance. Not everyone wants to dance. Some people are willing to dance, but aren't going to dance right this second. That's okay. Stop trying to force everyone to dance.
Or you could just become a swaglord like me and actually learn to dance so when people tell you "why ain't you dancing", you can hit the floor, bust a move, and leave with the hottest chick at the party.
In the words of a famous singer:

"We can dance if you want to. We can leave your friends behind. Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance. Well they're no friends of mine."

I'm sorry. I had this weird urge to quote 'Safety Dance'.
No one is forcing anyone, and this is a stupid post. For one, most people that actually develop games here have jobs of some sort. They work on the games in something called: "Free Time" There is no need to involve thy middle school children in your trivial argument here either. Leave the poor kids out of it. Thanks :D
In response to Gohan851
Eveyone is entitled to their own opinion. Anyway, I think you misread her post. You might want to read it over.
In response to GoldenArk
GoldenArk wrote:
Eveyone is entitled to their own opinion. Anyway, I think you misread her post. You might want to read it over.

I agree everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when you continually create critical topics about byond and the trend it is going in, it becomes insulting to the people that actually work on bettering the site. When spending all their time criticizing the site, he or she could have been reading the dm guide and learning the basics to start a world. It bugs me when people say they have seen how byond was and how it is now. I have been on byond since 2004. I remember how it was from then and how it is now. The website itself looks 100 times better than back in 2004 when the byond dime system was still in play. Sure they have taken out some features that were loved by members, but what developing company in the technology world has kept 100% of everything everyone has wanted? None. While he is entitled to his opinion about things, sometimes keeping your opinion to yourself is best. Posting this topic just shows pure ignorance and bliss in sounding like a smartass.
Even so, constructive criticism isn't bad (even if it is harsh). If it's a critical topic, then you should provide a viable defense. Lugia was mentioning the tactic "If you don't like it, then do it better", is a poor argument. There are some things I disagree/agree with Lugia, but it's important to provide a steady flow of ideas.
In response to Gohan851
Oh wow, did you honestly suggest I don't know the language? I'm probably more competent with the language than you, and I can work my way around it quite a bit. Dream Maker isn't a hard language, finding a way to make it good is the hard part.

I'm sure many companies have removed features over the years, but they've certainly replaced these features with better ones (if they're providing a service). And you know, personally I liked the old website look more. Was easier to differentiate colors or something, hard to explain.

I'm sure that in your society the people with the power to change things already know what to change, how to do it and when to do it. Unfortunately, in America our midichlorian count is quite low. I am one of seven people on the East Coast capable of using the Force. So to affect change or to even get discussion going about what changes could be necessary to improve the service, I have to make a textual post that hopefully someone will read and say, "Hey, that's a good idea." or "That's a terrible idea, and here's why". I have an opinion and I chose to share it. There's literally nothing stopping you from pressing the block button and not having to read my posts. Granted, I didn't have to share, but I chose to. It's my choice.

[And yes, I love to sound like a smartass. Read my comment]

But you clearly missed the point so I'll spell it out for you. These individuals that say, "well why don't you make a game" either do not recognize or do not care that:

1. You should not be unwelcome for not making games. This is not a community of developers, it's a community of gamers, some of which happen to be developers
2. If a person chooses to make a game, that's their prerogative. You can't bully people (or guilt-trip?) people into making games if they don't want to.
3a. Just because you haven't made any games, it doesn't mean that you are unqualified to express discontent with a service.
3b. Just because you've made several games, it doesn't mean that you are infallible.
By all means I did not attempt to even suggest that you didnt know the language, what I was trying to say is that the general public that has criticized the site has failed to learn the language and find ways to use the code to make higher quality games. It was not my intention to imply you did not know the language. And I'm sure you know more about it than me. I apologize that was they way I came across. And for the matter of "in your society", I live in America. The old website was so simplistic though and looked fairly unprofesisonal in my opinion. I like the professional look to the new website myself. But once again, I apologize if I came off as attacking you by stating that you did not know the language. I probably should have stated it a little more clearly targeting it towards older posts that people have made through the years criticizing the site without providing options for solving the issues, providing ideas, or even contributing to game development.
In response to GoldenArk
Did you just call Lugia a "her" lol. Maybe thats why she don't want to dance don't wanna give any of you guys twerks.
lugia is a grill?

ermegerd, this chernges errverrtherrng.
In response to Gohan851
The Jedi thing was just a sarcastic way of expressing a point.

I probably should have stated it a little more clearly targeting it towards older posts that people have made through the years criticizing the site without providing options for solving the issues, providing ideas, or even contributing to game development.

It's not really an issue you can solve through games. The issue is the community mentality (I even tried to address this in my first post). If everyone is waiting for the next person to jump, no one will jump. If you are an individual waiting for someone to jump, you are have no right to criticize someone else waiting for someone to jump. If you are someone actually jumping, do you really have to lower yourself to the standards of these other people waiting for someone to jump?

I don't agree with the "why don't you make something" comment any more than the "I've made more games than you" comment. As if creative content can be judged on quantity alone. The community needs to fix itself but BYOND has an interesting situation in which most of the "site users" don't actually use the forums at all. So really you can only "fix the forum users". But you can't really "fix" them easily because this environment has been a long time in the making. As many others have pointed out, the community issue goes back to at least 2003.

Did you just call Lugia a "her" lol. Maybe thats why she don't want to dance don't wanna give any of you guys twerks.

No one has gender on the internet as far as I'm concerned.
If you don't want to make a game, that's fine, but I'm still going to suggest it to anyone because it can make you strong as a game developer as well as a gamer. Sorry if I seemed pushy doing it, though.

Although there may be some people I think should stay off the forums (the ones who can't stand being corrected, in a place of learning), I've never really meant it like "make a game or leave."

Also, if you think making a game with BYOND is like eating a presumably super unhealthy enchilada, that's kind of insulting.
In response to GoldenArk
GoldenArk wrote:
In the words of a famous singer:

"We can dance if you want to. We can leave your friends behind. Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance. Well they're no friends of mine."

I'm sorry. I had this weird urge to quote 'Safety Dance'.
from now on, I hate you

EmpirezTeam wrote:
lugia is a grill?

ermegerd, this chernges errverrtherrng.

GIRL = Guy In Real Life... keep it that way... I dont want people treating her any different because shes female, we are all equal on the net so no need to go and ruin that