In response to Elorien
As close to opposites as 2 countries can be with both being democracies ^_~

Oh, come now. You're not France! :)


And as for the 11th.. Yea, I feel Sympathy for the states.. But like most people I know, I think the US responce is completely ass-backwards. You (the states) knew about Osama years ago.

Yeah, we probably should have taken care of him after the first World Trade Center attack. And there was intelligence before 9/11 that suggested something was in the works. On the other hand, an intelligence agency gets all kinds of threat reports, and sorting out the true problems from the false leads is tricky. Plus there's a mammoth bureaucracy complicating things (and I don't bring that up simply for the sake of criticizing bureaucracy, but just because it's relevant -- I work in a company with only a little over 100 people at the headquarters, and even in a small-scale operation like that, things get lost in the shuffle).


Then, just recently, in this whole Palistinian thing your nation became complete hippocrites IMHO. Theres been terrorist actions down there (suicide bombings) for years, and now the second they do something about it (just like the states did) the USA comes in telling them to stop. Way to go @[email protected] *L*

I have to agree about that -- though I've read some interesting arguments lately that suggest that the way things played out, Arafat is now more or less a has-been. I'd really love to believe that there is some Machiavellian master plan guiding U.S. policy in the Middle East, and given the intellectual resources at the President's disposal, it's a crying shame if there isn't; but on the other hand, it's all too plausible that the administration is just stumbling from event to event and hoping things will work out.


You knew about the horrid conditions in afganistan for years too.

We know about the horrid conditions in a lot of places. The whole continent of Africa is more permeated with horror now than it was when Conrad wrote about it a century ago, and most days our newspapers don't even mention Africa. I don't know what cost/benefit considerations guide U.S. policy, but I do know there's a lot more misery out there than America can eliminate by itself (and other first-world nations aren't exactly lining up to match our altruism-per-capita). And on a harsher note, it isn't America's responsibility to eliminate worldwide; the responsibility of the American government is solely to its own citizens. Sure, if we helped the Afghans get more freedom, that's a good thing; but it's a by-product of serving the American interest.

In response to Sariat
No, I said, doesn't everybody make that threat?

Even I do! I threatened to bomb Gordon Campbell's office just the other day.
In response to Spuzzum
Spuzzum wrote:
As far as I can tell, every single Canadian absolutely despises America as a nation, but every single Canadian absolutely loves each and every American citizen. However, we're quick to say, "Oh, that's because they're American," when one of their officials or citizens does something really ignorant.

I've seen some Canadian writers, at least, who don't despise America as a nation. And it's been my experience that the average Canadian accusing the average American of ignorance is, at best, massive hypocrisy.

We do like to poke fun at Americans, just as much as they like poking fun at us. Those hicks! =)

People who say "pop" instead of "soda" are hicks by definition. Sorry.
Of course there are hicks and there are hicks. I'd say most Americans aren't hicks, though we have a sizeable hick population--probably around 25%--and they vary in degree.

I get very annoyed when people think I say "aboot".

Heh--you just walked into a BCer stereotype. British Columbians, I've found, are often so fervent in their desire to refute Canadian stereotypes that they repeatedly quote the absolute dumbest of those stereotypes as if they're believed all over as gospel. In truth, few or no Canadians say "aboot"; but most or all say "aboaut". That weird diphthong is a rapid "oh-oo", instead of the "ah-oo" required. This is most pronounced (er... mispronounced?) in and around Ontario, but pretty much all Canadians I've ever listened to have exhibited some degree of this vowel shift.

Of course this is a common American misconception too, but it seems to be universal in the Land North of Starbucks. I refute it whenever I can. If you're going to stereotype people, you may as well do it right, I say.

[edit] Oh, mind you, I can't speak for RaeKwon. Half the time, I don't even consider him human, let alone Canadian.

RaeKwon's comments that sparked this thread aside, he's still better than certain 550nm 6-sided people (and attendant personas) who've attacked him in the past.

Lummox JR
In response to Elorien
Elorien wrote:
And as for the 11th.. Yea, I feel Sympathy for the states.. But like most people I know, I think the US responce is completely ass-backwards. You (the states) knew about Osama years ago. You knew about the horrid conditions in afganistan for years too. Yet you did -nothing- untill after he (and Im not even convinced on that it was actually him) did something.

To address the last point first: In his videos, bin Laden has actually admitted to this. Months prior, however, there was immediate and overwhelming evidence from intelligence sources proving al Qaeda was behind the attack. Documents on this were provided to the President, and to the Prime Minister of the UK. I saw a summary of the disclosable information that was given to Tony Blair, at least, and it was quite comprehensive. There is no doubt now, nor was there then, that bin Laden did in fact mastermind the whole thing. (That's not to say he couldn't have had help, though. There's also evidence tying al Qaeda to Saddam Hussein; it's likely, in fact, that Saddam lent some small support to the operation and knew about it in advance.)

As to why we did nothing until we were attacked: We had a lot less immediate justification for war in Afghanistan until then. However, we did have quite a bit of justification for going in and cleaning out al Qaeda, if not the Taliban. Failure to do this rests at the feet of the previous administration. (The new administration was less than a year old and already fighting major battles in Congress over domestic policy.)

Clinton's pollster, Dick Morris, even told him--when Slick Willy was searching for something to cement his "legacy"--that winning a war on terrorism would be wildly popular with the American people, many of whom recognized the threat posed by terrorist groups. It "wasn't his thing", says Morris, and so Clinton did little or nothing about terrorism despite several direct attacks against American citizens (and one against the World Trade Center) during his terms in office.

Then, just recently, in this whole Palistinian thing your nation became complete hippocrites IMHO. Theres been terrorist actions down there (suicide bombings) for years, and now the second they do something about it (just like the states did) the USA comes in telling them to stop. Way to go @[email protected] *L*

What's closer to the truth is that some of our leaders (but not all) are hypocrites. Polls show strong support for the Israelis and strong identification with what they've been forced to do. Most Americans are behind the Israelis all the way. The condemnation from some quarters has been for diplomatic purposes (because Europe and other Arab states have whined about the Israeli response), but also I think some people--particularly in the State Department, where diplomacy is believed infallable--really just don't get it. The reality those naysayers have ignored is that you can't make peace with people who don't want to make peace unless you strip them of their ability to make war.

I have nothing against the American people, hell my GF is American. Its just your government that needs to grow up *L*

I agree. IMO, we took a step in the right direction already, but there's a long way to go.
However, Canadians saying American government needs to grow up are definitely the pot calling the kettle black. The Canadian military contributed both its tanks, a mere handful of resources, to this campaign; and the Canadian government has made it easier for terrorists to enter the country than our INS did, and that's really saying something. I see the Canadian government as leaning very European in its policies, and Europe has been such an impediment to this entire world situation that it's clearly part of the problem.

Lummox JR
In response to Super16
Super16 wrote:
Actually Elorien.... We did try to do something. When Bill Clinton was in office after U.S.S. Cole was attacked we thought we knew where he was and bombed the hell out of the area what thought where he was...(excuse my language) Unfortunately he wasn't where we thought and we blew up a whole bunch of empty buildings.

Just a clarification on that: There was little or no intelligence indicating bin Laden was there; we only knew that it was one of al Qaeda's training camps. We also didn't bomb the crap out of it, but merely sent some cruise missiles. This was the height of our response to bin Laden's terrorism during the Clinton administration, and it was very weak. The first al Qaeda attack under Bush, at least the first of any note, was September 11.

Lummox JR
In response to RaeKwon
USA KICKS ASS ><
In response to UnknownOrb
UnknownOrb wrote:
USA KICKS ASS ><

so does canada, every place does were all on the same planet? :)
- RaeKwon
In response to UnknownOrb
Ya'll know what? UnknownOrb is the only person here who I respect. You idiots, Canada can't try to be American, THEY ARE AMERICAN. Try USA next time and you'll have a correct statement. Cause we ain't called America we're called The United States of America.

And on the other hand what are we called? USA'ers? United States of Americans?
In response to Elorien
Hum yes we (USA) knew of all the crap in Afg. and places for a long time, but so did canada! Why did they do anything? The same reason the US did not, because they had no reason to. But i guess canada would have troubles with a big attack like that. What do you think canada would have done if the terrorist attacked them?

Just a little Q. & A. from your old pal scoobert.
In response to Airson
What i dont get is why do people call the USA the US, meixco likes to be called USM (united stats of mexico), so we could call them US too. What about all the europe countys starting with United States? US is an out of date term.
In response to Scoobert
Knowing Canada, chances are we woulda tried to get the UN to pull something for us. While our navy is one of the most technologicaly advanced in the world (I think the only one better is one of the european nations) our military -numbers- of high end equipment suck a -lot- @[email protected] last time I heard we had more submarines at west edmonton mall then we do in active service.

Theres no way we could even have started a ground war either, just for our troops to get to help you guys out, we had to use US military transport to get troops there and back ^_~

If we had the military power that the US has, then possibly we might have taken that route. Politics has a way of making people thing the same way, no matter what country you're working for. Im not saying I agree with Canada's government either. Personally from where I sit thier totally screwing things up (specially our provicncial government, my tuition goes up by more then 90% next year, and my loan drops the part I dont have to pay back, so for me its more like 150% x.x;;;

Ill say it again, I wasnt trying to bash anyone with my earlier post ^^ I dislike all governments pretty much equally, but my major pet peeve is hippocracy ^_~

El
In response to Elorien
Elorien wrote:
Knowing Canada, chances are we woulda tried to get the UN to pull something for us. While our navy is one of the most technologicaly advanced in the world (I think the only one better is one of the european nations) our military -numbers- of high end equipment suck a -lot- @[email protected] last time I heard we had more submarines at west edmonton mall then we do in active service.

UN military action, when it's not an oxymoron, is synonymous with "US forces, a handful of British forces, and guests".

Ill say it again, I wasnt trying to bash anyone with my earlier post ^^ I dislike all governments pretty much equally, but my major pet peeve is hippocracy ^_~

I agree. Being governed by hippos or doctors would be a terrible thing.

Lummox JR
In response to Elorien
The loan is because your government is spending everything on free health care :P
In response to Airson
Ya'll know what? UnknownOrb is the only person here who I respect. You idiots, Canada can't try to be American, THEY ARE AMERICAN.

Yep, in the same way that people from Zimbabwe and Madagascar are South African.
In response to Gughunter
Gughunter wrote:
Ya'll know what? UnknownOrb is the only person here who I respect. You idiots, Canada can't try to be American, THEY ARE AMERICAN.

Yep, in the same way that people from Zimbabwe and Madagascar are South African.

Exactly. Canadians aren't American. If someone wants to lump the States and Canada in the same bag, then that bag would be North American, not just plain American. The United States of America came up with the term "American" during the Independence war, and it's theirs and theirs alone. I'm a Canadian, not an American, and people who think otherwise really need to rethink their adjectives. =P


Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Chile, Peru, Guatemale, Cuba, and all of those other Central and South American places would be full of Americans, using the "American" logic. I don't know about you, Airson, but I definitely don't consider Cubans to be American. Not really a slam against them, but they hate the United States, so calling them "American" is almost an insult in their books. =P
In response to Scoobert
Scoobert wrote:
What i dont get is why do people call the USA the US, meixco likes to be called USM (united stats of mexico), so we could call them US too. What about all the europe countys starting with United States? US is an out of date term.

No we don't....
In response to Spuzzum
well, I looked the word up just to rub it in your face, but it seems that we are both right. Just a state of mind I guess.

In response to Lummox JR
And it's been my experience that the average Canadian accusing the average American of ignorance is, at best, massive hypocrisy.

Of what are Canadians ignorant about? We're the ones that pay attention to global events that don't directly affect the U.S. or Canada, you know. =P

I'm not praising the average Canadian citizen, mind you; there are about two-hundred kids in my school of 1200 that I would just love to strangle to death (of course I wouldn't, but I wouldn't feel so bad if I did, you know, in a fit of uncontrollable madness). There's another three- to four-hundred that I think have the morals of the common rock, around one-hundred that I actually could consider anything close to being trustworthy or intelligent -- around twenty of those being good acquaintances, six being my friends, three being my closer friends -- and the rest I simply haven't met, or haven't met on any level other than one of "feh, not my type," "wow, that girl's not too bad looking," "holy crap!" (or any other variation on sheer fascination), "hrm, a guy," or "aw, crap, that's that girl's boyfriend?" =)


Heh--you just walked into a BCer stereotype.

Of course I did. I was being the stereotypical patriotic Canuck. =D


British Columbians, I've found, are often so fervent in their desire to refute Canadian stereotypes that they repeatedly quote the absolute dumbest of those stereotypes as if they're believed all over as gospel. In truth, few or no Canadians say "aboot"; but most or all say "aboaut". That weird diphthong is a rapid "oh-oo", instead of the "ah-oo" required. This is most pronounced (er... mispronounced?) in and around Ontario, but pretty much all Canadians I've ever listened to have exhibited some degree of this vowel shift.

When I went to Thunder Bay, people did have an accent, granted, but it was akin to that of the eastern States. At the very least aspect of what I'm defending, they sure as heck didn't end everything in "eh". =)

When I say it, I say "a bout". It's neither "oo" (as in "aboot"), "ah-oo", (as in "abahwoot") nor "oh-oo" (as in "abowoot"): it's "uh-oo". "Abuhwoot", if that makes any sense.

I'll hook up my mic and record a copy for you, since I'm getting tired of repeating this same argument again and again. ;-P


(Frankly, I find that the Americans got things mixed up. How the heck can you say roof as "roouhff" instead of "roof"? Same goes for boot.

We do, however, say "foouht", since foot as "oo" just sounds stupid. =P)


I don't really see how I got suckered into that argument, though; it's not the matter of the pronunciation I'm fighting, it's the fact that many Americans perpetrate "aboot" as fact -- of all the ones spreading accent arguments (about 1 in every 10 I've met online think that we say "aboot"), you're the only one that hasn't claimed "aboot", but you're simply making a variation on it. In other words, I couldn't care less if it was "abowoot" or even "sploink"; I'm not really fighting that. What I'm fighting is being misrepresented. =)



the Land North of Starbucks.

Starbucks is everywhere up here too, but not in as much proliferation, because in my opinion, Tim Hortons' coffee is better (usually). Especially the flavoured drinks, like mocha. Tim Hortons' Iced Cappucino doesn't come close to Starbucks' Frappucino, however. Bleh, the Iced Cappucino makes me shudder just thinking about it. =|
In response to Airson
Airson wrote:
well, I looked the word up just to rub it in your face, but it seems that we are both right. Just a state of mind I guess.

Yep. It's more of the noun versus the adjective, really, now that I think of it. Context also plays a key role.

As I was taught, 'American' as an adjective, applied to a person, means 'from the United States'. 'American' as an adjective, applied to anything else, means either 'from the Americas' or 'from the United States', depending on context. 'American', as a noun, is definitely a citizen of the 'States.

Thus, an 'American expedition' might be exploring Mexico and El Salvador. An American, however, comes from the United States. Likewise, saying 'he is American' means 'he is from the United States'.
In response to RaeKwon
so does canada, every place does were all on the same planet? :)
- RaeKwon

I thought you were the one saying you dont give a shit about americans?


yes, you forgot about the threat you made to bomb canada.
- TheWizard.

for this I will quote myself... I in no way meant this to be against Canadians, rather to tell him that he was being immature among other things. Him meaning... you, Raekwon. And you should really try to close your mouth and open your ears sometimes. It doesn't make you appear smart (not saying that you aren't aside from our argument) when someone gives you a quote from your own governments laws, and you still insist that you are right.
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