ID:2185047
 
Why do you prefer using spacing out code rather than using tab?
13 seconds in and i'm already losing it.
Bravo.
I wasn't even aware people did this shit.

This is on par with people who insist on typing "@gmail.com" when they're logging into their gmail. WHY? JUST WHY? OR THE PEOPLE WHO PUT QUESTION MARKS AT THE END OF THEIR GOOGLE SEARCHES. IT'S NOT NECESSARY DAMNIT.
In response to Flame Guardian
Flame Guardian wrote:
13 seconds in and i'm already losing it.

Hahaha.
Mostly preference, though BYOND doesn't really accommodate users who use spaces as whitespace.
tabs 4 lyfe
I've seen C code that used spaces instead of tab. :|
Spaces are just inefficent and ugly, most of the time you're using 2-4 spaces to indicate an ident, so that's 2-4 keystrokes as opposed to 1.

Same is true for unindenting, with tabs it's an easy task to pull the whole line back a block or two, but with spaces it becomes a big ol' chore.

Especially when you're using tabs/spaces for readability and not because the language requires it, spaces mean you're probably going to end up with things not lined up and again... ugly.
I work in tabs, but I spend so much time writing code for you people that I frequently write code with spaces.

I spend hours and hours popping code into skype conversations, discord, the pager, and the forums.

It fucks with my head.

But one cool thing is that 90% of the time, the code I type without testing and compiling actually works.
In response to Nadrew
Depends on your IDE all of the jet brains IDEs InteliJ PHPstorm etc allow you to use 2 or 4 spaces as a tab and it automatically detects the tab format of code in other files.

Shift tab also works correctly with 2 spaces on.

It's not as bad in that case, it actually looks OK in some languages like Javascript.
I actually started out using spaces when I first started writing code for DM.

Eventually I took a programming class and noticed I was one of the few people who wasn't doing tabs. Eventually switched to tabs after being subject to immense peer pressure to use tabs.


Spaces aren't an issue if you're using a proper editor. The editor I use (Atom) handles them so smoothly it doesn't even allow you to select individual spaces in the indentation even if you try. And you can switch between tabs and spaces in a keystroke.

Of course, DM isn't a proper editor. It's cancer and anybody who uses it needs to see me.

Doesn't mean that spaces better than tabs, but when you're working with languages that require it (see: Python PEP8) have a proper editor and there's no difference.
In response to PJB3005
"my poor design choices are BYOND's fault, not mine!"
In response to Kumorii
If you're saying that because you know I'm an SS13 dev, then please stop.

If I want to I could make a huge list of issues with BYOND and why using it in 2017 for new projects is a dumb idea, but I won't because it isn't worth my time.

If not: the only place I trash talked BYOND was saying DM is cancer and honestly I'm not sure whether I should be baffled or confused as to why anybody would defend DM. (the editor, though the language itself has more than enough issues to say the least)
wasnt there a project to remake ss13 in another language

whatever happened to that?
In response to EmpirezTeam
1. C# rewrite that failed, called SS14. Only one that was actually thought out somewhat. Died because the original devs went with a crap DirectX wrapper instead of OpenGL and the project was put on full stop after being open sourced to port SFML. It never got momentum again.
2. There's some Unity based 3D thing that's still happening apparently. Commercial I think?
3. There's a Unity based 2D thing that started recently and it sounds like a trainwreck to me so...
4. A remake in C++, called griefly, still going strong technically but it sounds like a trainwreck to me.
5. A remake in C# by transpiling the DM code of SS13 to C# and using that. Stopped when the dev realized how stupid BYOND was and it was no use bothering to port this mess.
6. Note the couple of other remakes that guy apparently made too, honk.
7. Oh didn't somebody start something in Java once? That got nowhere.
8. Oh yeah there was that guy on the subreddit showing off 1 album of 3D pics for his remake then dissapearing.
9. Oh yeah this C++ remake that the dev disappeared of.
10. Hey looking for the above there's this apparently. That went nowhere.
11. Oh yeah I think I got some wind of an entirely different UE based remake that go nowhere except like... reagents?
12. lol
13. Oh yeah there was Dean Hall (DayZ)'s Ion which got nowhere.
14. Centration which has been proven to be a scam, but still exists technically.
15. Oh yeah a couple well respected SS13 coders tried to make an "OpenBYOND". That died as soon as SS14 got released. Hooray.
16. Primulus by some Baystatio12 devs which didn't get very far past the (failed) kickstarter.
17. Oh yeah, and Tech Compliant. Which is more "inspired" and a UE based 3D game. Shows promise but it's not actually SS13.

actually this is probably enough.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SS13/ search?q=remake&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all
I didn't know you were a SS13 dev, nor does that make me think any different of you. I respect SS13 and it's community, but BYOND isn't nearly as bad as you and other SS13 devs say it is. If you know the engine and how it works, it's easy to work around the low ceiling. I don't mean this offensively but SS13's codebase is kind of a trainwreck which I'm sure is where a lot of the SS13 community's gripes with the BYOND software comes from.

A lot of the failed remakes of SS13 also probably failed because the devs underestimated the sheer amount of code that they had to fill in that DM otherwise took care of for them.
Doesn't mean that spaces better than tabs, but when you're working with languages that require it (see: Python PEP8) have a proper editor and there's no difference.

Holy jesus!

Protip: pep8 does not apply to all of python.

pep8 is the standard for submitting your python code to be included in the python standard library, but that literally the only thing it applies to.

Imagine if byond started including common and useful libraries with byond so you didn't have to grab them, now imagine they had a standard of formatting and syntax that everything submitted to be included in this standard library had to use, now imagine some snob came in to every ss13 codebase and said the code sucked because it didn't follow the byond standard library specs.

protip PB&J: Unless you plan on submitting to the python standard library, ignore pep8.
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