The biggest issue is, Generations was never made to function with Cycling. Every wipe I've seen with cycling has been the same thing. X Y Z races are always stronger because of their Power level Mods, and every other race has to gen a bunch to ever even fight back. That's not DBG, it's not fun, only people playing those races like it, and honestly, I don't see why. Generations used to be about playing the game instead of Cycling all day. You used to go off and train with someone and spar until you could defend yourself properly, and RP was developed from people spamming various training and then feeling confident to go out and do things. After Cycling was introduced to the game, the only people who ever feel confident are Changelings and demons. They benefit the absolute most from Cycling, as their power level modifiers allow them to gain more than any other race due to cycling's affect on how training escalates for each person.
I'm sure you all just love Cycling to death, But I heavily assure you, It was cancer of generations, and it will be cancer for Genesis. We need an AFK flag that pops up after 5 minutes and makes it so you can't gain. And with the rule of 'no macro training' That should be enough deterrent. Cycling is not only not needed, it's harmful to the game, it makes balancing more difficult, and it serves as an artificial wall between you and training your character as you'd like, this 'people just do one sort of training to stack a stat, so we need cycling' shit is not an argument, as people can do that with Cycling. And stacking a Stat is meaningless if everyone can do it. All that's needed is some balancing on the gains system, so X Y Z stats do not go up too quickly. A Cap that slows gains down when you're at at the top of the stat ranks. Not terribly slower, perhaps 20% slower. And stats shouldn't gain terribly fast either. No stat should be gaining faster than your Base power level is gaining pre-FPLM, first gen gain rates.
All Cycling will ever do is promote people training by themselves and 'doing their cycle' instead of interacting with others and fucking roleplaying their training.
I'm absolutely certain and I've heard all sides to this and am not changing my mind. Cycling needs to completely go. The game was far- far better without it, and the only thing that was wrong with old generations before it was Glitch-gains exploits and the offspring system. Cycling was a horrible idea, and it's no surprise that it wasn't even Liens' idea to begin with.
ID:2428462
 Feb 15 2019, 11:48 pm
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Or some such formula that's balanced. To prevent people from gaining tremendous stats from Generation's way of distributing gains. I'm sure Hobbit's more capable to balance it than I am, he just needs to see how it fans out by speeding up the game and testing things some, see what he feels is right. I get some races are weaker earlier wipe, I get that. But not so much weaker that they can't even have a chance to become top tier early wipe, that shouldn't be a thing. It promotes a lame environment where everyone flocks to X y Z races because A b C races are flat out unviable, you're a sitting duck. Idk, just want what's best for everyone, honestly.
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You do know you can edit your post, right?
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Lmao No
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no
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-100
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Where do we start Morbid?
Do you wanna know why cycling is in the game? It's to prevent people from getting strong from just doing one type of training type. It's to make you into a more "well rounded" character. Sure if you have a 10x mod somewhere in your stats, that stat is going to be the highest right? BUT, in a system where you could just train to your hearts content, on one stat, Means you have to prioritize training your highest mods. Got a force character, guess you gotta beam for years to make sure you can ONE SHOT that Melee user. A non cycling system just wouldn't be fun. I mean, ask yourself this. Is your system EVEN good, when you have to code in soft caps for stats? Think about that, Cycling doesn't need soft caps, because it has the inherit soft cap of getting resilient, and yet it's not a soft cap on the stat itself, instead on the training type, that goes away, when you train with ANOTHER training type. Your system wouldn't work, because of the inherit flaw that you think everybody should have the freedom to train whatever they want, whenever they want. Cycling does it's job and does it very well in fact. Infact there's no reason to remove a system that works, with a system that very much sounds like some kind of hypothetical system that you'd want just to abuse. But, I guess this is just my middle ground, Cycling doesn't need to be removed at all. | |
You're right, I revoke my statements all other than Cycling should just simply be removed. Return focus training so people can focus on Res / forc End / Str So if you don't have enough Res it's your own fault for not medding and focusing on it.
I want Actual generations back, minus the glitch-training exploits and breeding exploits. Cycling is garbage and I will never change my opinion. All that's needed when I think on it more is an AFK flag that prevents gains after being afk for 5 + Minutes, and a rule for no macro-afk training. Period. Cycling is and always will be a garbage system that only helps certain races, leaving other races unable to train the way the original game was designed around. The game was tremendously more fun before cycling, even with psycho admins freaking out all the time. If you fail to train your character properly because there's no cycling, that's your own fault for not putting the time into medding for res, or training focused on endurance. Cycling absolute is a bad system. And there's a ton of reasons why. Including that the game was never balanced for it, it was balanced to be free to train as you saw fit, and spar-spam even. It just is. | |
Cycling needs to go and liens original catch up system should return too, pretty sure it gave you standing gains by a Percent of what you'd had if you had been online standing still.
Idc really, but i'm very certain that cycling is bad for the game. Has nothing to do with focused stats, I played generations for many wipes before cycling, focusing stats wasn't an issue, neither was powering up high, neither thing ever should have been changed. Regen shouldn't go away just because you took a hit on vitals, recovery should recovery energy at the tick you gain at all times. These things, including there being no cycling, made the game play out more like a 'db' experience, changing all that stuff is the worse thing liens did, and it made the game far less interesting, far more predictable, and dull and drab, spamming cycle training all day instead of training for awhile, getting some standing gains while you run around and rp, training again, sparring for awhile with someone ic. Stuff like that, now it's hit the wall, spam blast, hit the wall. If you train with anyone it's cycle training next to them, it's drab, it messes up the balancing of the game, rewards specific races and builds far more than not having it does. It's Not Good. I present tons of reasons why, the only reason you present is 'people can focus stats' really? Really. That was never an issue in generations. If you never had a capable character before cycling, it was because you didn't make one. "I didn't focus on resistance and meditate enough, so my str/end focused char gets 1 shot by ki." That's your fault, not cycling. As it stands now, it's even worse than pre-cycling Generations, because there's no stat focus like generations still had even with cycling. Cycling is flat out bad, can't say it enough. And not only that; it also makes actually; -playing the game- :boring compared to without it. As well as everything else I've mentioned and more. | |
Ontop of all that, you can't show me how Cycling doesn't heavily help out High power level mod races, and make it nearly impossible for high stat races to compete with them like they could in old Generations. It just ruins the fun of the game of training a character.
It absolutely does. And I really can't see how you don't realize that the only thing wrong with old generations was it needed an AFK-flag for gains, to prevent EZing. People's noses are too far in liens' rear if you want to ask me what it is. Either that or you're completely blind, if you can't see how Cycling is negative to the game. Whatever. | |
EXAMPLE, Let's say, hypothetically, the last person my character fought beat them with Ki, I cannot Rp my char training their resistance and then focus entirely on that until I can handle their Ki attacks and actually fight them. Cycling is BAD FOR THE GAME. JUST ACCEPT IT. Wow.
It really actually is. And has been since it was introduced. Wish liens would just give me generation's host files with cycling removed + afk gains flag and i'd admin the right people and show u cycling is bad and the game's more fun without it. But If I did that I bet Liens would come into the game with coded admin to troll me and act like how I acted when he ran the game. lol. Which was like a bitch btw. But hey, cycling's so great, you all love it. Good times, punching the wall all day and absolutely having to spam your cycle to keep up with everyone, gotcha. Ah DBG, before Liens butchered it with cycling and power-up nerfs. I'll miss you. | |
Morbid, let me ask you this.
How can you be sure Cycling is a 1-1 implemention of how Liens did cycling? Cause I can tell you it isn't. The way speed works with cycling is off. Large bodies cycles aren't THAT slow than they were compared to DBG. (Same with Small Bodies) What this means is that the issues you have with DBG cycling, probably isn't in Genesis. But you're too stuck in wanting YOUR DBG experience to even open your eyes to see. | |
I'm not saying Hobbit can't make a system that works well with Cycling. I'm saying that I disagree the game needs cycling, and that it's even something that makes the game more fun. Again, I think the only thing wrong with the game before cycling was added: was buggy offspring system, and glitch-exploit gaining. As well as a lack of an afk flag to help prevent afk/EZing.
And this 'force balanced training' this all it does is create a new meta where X Y Z builds are strongest, Power level MOD is more important. Especially when you cut away the way Regen was originally implemented, and how energy recovers. Limb damage used to be how you chopped someone down, now people get ko's easily with melee without even taking any real limb damage, in an 'equal' melee fight. It's boring, uninspired. The variety of builds is gone, the aspect of 'training' has divulged into cycling. As I expressed before, the IC aspect of training is gone, where one could identify their weakness and then focus train on it to improve that weakness. There's so many things wrong with Cycling, I've named a lot of them. Yet there's only 1 single thing people point out as it's benefit, and that's counter intuitive to several positive aspects that the game had without it. Cycling was not needed. Liens only needed to fix the exploit-gains, offspring system, and implement an afk flag. An afk flag that makes you considered 'standing' so if you are doing any form of gains and go afk the game flags you afk, you begin to get only standing gains until you come back and change the action you're doing. So if you're self training, to reset the afk timer, you'd have to actually do something, not just press a key or chat You'd have to change state, like stop meditating and train verb for example. Not simply press any key while medding still, to be clear. My main argument is the game was more fun without cycling for a large number of reasons. And the main issues with 'imbalance' wasn't from there not being cycling it was from people glitch-exploit gaining. I know I was competing with the people doing it at the time. Which is how I discovered half of them before they were fixed, by seeing others do it. But if there's going to be cycling, at least -please- bring regen and recovery back to how they were in generations. with how recovery and regen are now, they're totally pointless to have as stats. It feels like all these changes are unnecessarily funneling a game that was already perfect and didn't need anything but bug fixes, and it feels really bad.(especially liens' power up nerf) But whatever. And -please- put stat focus in like generations had. | |
See the real problem is, I liked generations more than all ya'll. Period. Because you all want the generations after liens started butchering the damn thing. I want the generations before all the lame changes he made. That's the difference.
just say it once more, so if you retort, just return to this and read it again. Right before Cycling was added, instead of cycling- Generations only needed it's bugs fixed and an afk flag. Period. And not some stupid power up nerf either. Powering up high was part of what made the game fun and making builds fun. Seeing how high your next gen would power up, how much anger they had, or if they'd be a stat whore. Ever since Cycling and all the massive nerfs the game's mediocre and boring in comparison. I challenge you to try out the difference and see for yourself. I don't care to discuss it any more. I'll never like cycling, never like the power up nerf, and never like nerfed regen / recovery. Ever. I also don't like the huge nerf to armor and swords either, fyi. I'm one of the people who thought liens had the game balanced just fine earlier on, just needed to fix bugs and exploits and android / cyborgs/ fusion (which I consider bugs). Final answer. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!CYCLING IS BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
Lmao "Bring regen and recovery back" So I see you love Majin Style Regenration and Recovery. Where you can drain your energy bar and BOOM be back at full health and full energy in less than a second. That's the reason the passives were removed. If you're talking about not regening/recovering energy when you spend it, I think that's a good change, No need to infinite fire blasts like it's nothing. But, I think it's pretty funny that you say you love Generations more than any of us, even though you weren't even around when Genesis was just a twinkle in Hobbit's eyes. The way you treated Liens tells me that you didn't love Generations as much as you think you do, and the way you keep wanting "OLD DBG" Is why you need to make your own game. Make it however you please, instead of trying to force Hobbit to go one way or the other. Honestly, I loved the power up nerf. Honestly you shouldn't be able to go past 100% of your power, unless it was from anger, Body expansion, Cyborgification or Transformation, like in the show. It made sense. Plus it allowed Super forms to take center stage (as they should) I don't get the whole "Super old gens was better" If anything, having the shopkeeper, No cycling, Unlimited Armors/Swords, it sounds like some kind of RPT clone. Atleast with those things, it made Generations different. And honestly, to make it made the game better imo, it's more interactive, it forces you to do more with the game. And if you don't like that, well, there are a multitude of other Byond games (and games outside of byond) that you can play. | |
This suggestion is bad and you should feel bad, if you remember how to feel anymore at all.
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Regening /recovering fast didn't stop people from A. - powering up to a point that you still lost Ki during combat.(It's super obvious you never had a strong character before cycling as added, btw) B. getting their limbs wrecked or losing Vitality during combat.
How dare I speak freely before the great god Liens. (sarcasm.) Sorry I don't care how good of a game someone makes, I'm not going to kiss their ass, especially when they're wrong. Liens was wrong about things, I told him, he got offended, that's his issue. Liens had insulted me probably over 50 times before I insulted him once. Tell me, how'd I treat Liens exactly? Helping him out by telling him literally every exploit on gains that was in his game at the time? How about offering to admin, pointing out to him his head admin at the time was lying to him and admin abusing by editing. If Liens can't handle an idle insult online, then he's a little boy and needs to grow up. Especially since he's the first one to insult someone, as fast as he can type it out. I don't need to stalk people on byond to appreciate what generations was more than you. You still haven't intelligibly debated any of the points I make, All you do is go 'Cycling stops stat focusing' When, really all Cycling does is create imbalances in game that didn't really have an issue to begin with. Honestly the only issue generations ever had was a hand full of people couldn't act like adults enough to play a 2d roleplaying game. Or even speak to each other without having a little fit. And exploits, obviously. Now go ahead and get the last word on my post since you're totally not obsessive compulsive disorder. | |
If Genesis isn't like Generations was, I simply won't play it.
Besides I'm rather sure it's going to end up like Generations did toward the end, where only 10 people play with 2-3 alts each and none of them roleplay aside from enough to keep from getting themselves banned, and / basically/ only when they're forced to rp. Thus anyone who shows up looking to, idk, play a roleplaying sandbox, will leave, since you're all pvping and using rp to justify your pvp-power gaming quest. Which- Isn't even fun now because the system's so heavily butchered and not even recognizable as Generations anymore. BUT HEY you have it all figured out man. Good for you. Enjoy your 'not' generations game. Hey at least it looks like generations, we all know that was the most important part of the game, how it looked. | |
-100000 no
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Stats should gain faster then your powerlevel base, clearly, if you have a higher stat mod than your PL mod. But what I mean is the stats should be on a slower ticker, to prevent that. So you gain stats at a .25 rate tick and PL at a 1 tick, as an example of what I specifically meant.