Descriptive Problem Summary:
Set a map's zoom to any non-zero value. Compile. Run. Dream Seeker pops it back into stretch to fit.
See test project:
http://files.byondhome.com/Ter13/zoombug_src.zip
ID:2605227
 Aug 17 2020, 9:34 pm
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Resolved
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Aug 18 2020, 1:25 pm
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Lummox JR
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Lummox JR resolved issue with message:
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Hey Ter, learn to search the forums first. No stealing my update log credits T.T
Hey Lummox, no taking favorites :@ http://www.byond.com/forum/post/2594226 lol | |
I could not possibly have confirmed that your bug and mine were the same from the post you linked, NSBR.
There wasn't enough information in your report for anyone to reproduce it because the test case was private, and you didn't list any of the steps for recreating the issue. All you said was that map.zoom wasn't working. That could mean any number of things. That could mean that map.zoom doesn't work when changed with winset(), that could mean that map.zoom doesn't work when set in the skin editor. That could mean that map.zoom is being saved inappropriately. That could mean that map.zoom on a secondary map doesn't work. I knew about the bug report that you linked, but the last time that we spoke about this issue, I recall you were having trouble with non-integer zoom levels due to map.zoom defaulting to 0 in secondary maps, so I didn't necessarily know that these were the same issue. | |
? This is from our conversation: http://prntscr.com/u707ha
You also had the test case, cause you asked for it. And you've seen it yourself. | |
I do remember that conversation, now that you mention it. I remember you bringing me that bug involving secondary map controls scaling images when they shouldn't have been, and I got fed up trying to squeeze blood from a stone and told you to send me the source, and in the space of 5 minutes confirmed that there was a BYOND bug at play and washed my hands.
So... To sum this up, you are upset that you put up a lazy bug report of a bug you weren't able to diagnose, and were ignored long enough for me to entirely forget about our conversation at which point I ran into the bug myself, diagnosed it, created a test case, and posted the report within minutes, and moved on with my day? The fact that your bug report didn't even jog my memory of our conversation alone should be telling of just how little information was in your report. I don't care about who gets credit for the report. I just wanted this bug fixed so I could remove the hack from my code. Moreover, I'm fine if Lum wants to delete this entire report and resolve yours --but here's the rub: He shouldn't have to. That would give you the idea that the entitled way in which you approach this entire community is helpful. You do find legit bugs. You do. I just wish that you would have the respect for other developers to report them and stop acting like your fragmentary reports are being ignored for no reason other than unwarranted personal dislike. | |
No man, I just did a lighthearted comment about me already reporting this same bug, since you did have information about it, and the test case, contrary to what you said afterwards, which I just corrected you on.
I ran to you for help in the chance that I was doing something wrong w the map element, instead of it being a bug. I did create a test case, talked extensively on it with Lummox and also posted the report so I don't know what you're on about. The bug report is lazy that is for sure. Lummox had the full details on our private conversation, and also had the test case. It just felt strange that something that you had knowledge about slipped your mind like that. There was no need for such defensiveness about it imo tho. And if you just forgot about it, that is also fine. I never treated it like Lummox unwarrantedly personally dislikes me. I just joked that he picked favorites because he resolved yours, which was reported latter, whilst having the full info and test case by me, even tho not on the report card. | |
I think you talked about it to me, but I don't know about with me, and I wouldn't say "extensively". DMs occupy an entirely different head space anyway. Typically, if something isn't in the bug report post it may as well not have been said at all. There are exceptions of course, like if I'm doing intensive debugging with someone on a difficult-to-solve issue where using chat becomes simpler. But you have a tendency to throw information about bugs at me with a shotgun approach where you'll mention it casually in chat, in DMs or in a public channel, and expect me to remember.
Thing is, that's usually the worst way to bring a bug to my attention, because chat can happen at any time and often does. Either I'll be working on something entirely different, or I won't be working at that time at all. Now obviously you're not the only person to ask me in chat "Hey, is this a bug?" But you are the only person who seems to believe saying something once in one place is good enough that it never need be repeated in official channels, and you also tend to skimp on details in both places. One of the reasons I'm so insistent on writing complete bug reports is that if I'm not ready to pick up or close an issue that moment, I need a place I can go to later for reference that has all the info packaged together in a useful way. Also, having to fill a template forces the bug reporter to think it through some more so they break it down into simpler steps, which in turn is of enormous help to me. Recall in your recent report about the size-to-image issue: You kept insisting the title of the post was as good as steps to reproduce, but that only tells me (roughly) where you are and not how you got there. | |
Nsbr, I acknowledged the conversation before your correction. Reread what I said.
You never budge. No point in this. You never accept the effect of your actions can differ from your intentions, so I do not see a point further conveying how transparent your intentions are. Calling this a joke, and then fighting about how you were right if it were to have been serious is an overt disrespect to the cognitive faculties of all involved. You have been ranting about favoritism and developer laziness for years. I am over it, and I am through giving you the benefit of the utter lack of doubt. The really maddening part is every time you get slapped for incomplete bug reports, you put so much effort into explaining how you weren't wrong and how everyone else is at fault. If you put half of that effort into the bug report in the first place, you could save the other half of the effort you put into playing the victim. This isn't defensive. It's lost tolerance for a subject in which you have repeatedly abused my patience. | |
Dont worry nsbr, he does this often.
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Kozuma3 wrote:
Dont worry nsbr, he does this often. Translation: He cut ties with me for being openly racist and that makes him irrational. Anybody else wanna chime in with team gaslight? | |
I heard Ter actually has cloven hooves, meaning he isn't a horse at all.
.... js. | |
I'm not saying you didn't acknowledged that we had a conversation. Reread what I said.
Ter13 wrote: I knew about the bug report that you linked, but the last time that we spoke about this issue, I recall you were having trouble with non-integer zoom levels due to map.zoom defaulting to 0 in secondary maps, so I didn't necessarily know that these were the same issue. You had the full correct information about the bug, and you had the test case, so you saw what it really was yourself. That is what I said. You forgot about it and that is fine. I just corrected you on that. Saying that I never budge when you don't do it yourself? My comment was done lightheartedly on my part. I thought that the low effort jokes and emojis were enought to take that point across. I accept the fact that you didn't perceive it as such tho, it's pretty obvious. And since you didn't, I'm explaining myself in an appropriate manner to the changed mood of the conversation. Believing myself to be right doesn't make me wrong tho. I do believe Lummox takes more interest in something you post, or Members posts, other than the general population. That is something that I perceive and I may be wrong. There is nothing inherently wrong with him doing that tho. It's something that I complain about but it's ultimately his choice. I do make incomplete bug reports. I can admit to that. What I always complained about was thinking that they were enought because it was discussed in other mediums, as Lummox's post explains well enought. (Btw, I see that it isn't so no need to argue this point anymore.) | |
I do take more notice of what Ter says, for a few simple reasons: He is very detailed when he discusses bugs or bug-adjacent issues, he knows his stuff, and he's respectful of my time as a developer. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to use him as an intermediary to present issues you find; what it means is you should take note of how he communicates and do likewise.
As for Members taking priority: yes. Always. | |
This last reply is all completely fair.
I do have sympathy for the fact that the more you get slapped for not putting forward complete bug reports, the less you feel like you should engage them at all, but I implore you to just consider that this will only lock you into a self-perpetuating cycle of negative outcomes with the people you are trying to get the attention of in the first place. I think, perhaps you have the wrong picture of just why I'm coming at you though. I'm coming at you, and I'm generally so prickly when you come at me in DMs about the bug situation because it feels like you are asking me to do your homework for you when there are more suitable, less presumptuous avenues to pursue the problem in the first place. --Particularly when the first thing I have to ask is: "Have you put in debug outputs?" and the answer is generally no. I wind up feeling manipulated and put off by these interactions, and when I respond negatively or dismissively, I'm further made to feel like the bad guy because you perceive how you interact with me as being nice/respectful, while I feel like what's happening is a transaction where your payment for my time is fake deference. The fucked up irony, is that I respond more positively to genuine dislike than I do manipulative nicety. As for having the full picture of your project, I only investigated long enough to get out of a conversation that irked me that landed in my lap in the middle of my work day. I had no real interest in deeper investigation as to the root cause, because it wasn't my problem, and I had little faith that you would actually report the issue adequately enough to get it fixed because of the track record on this exact issue in the past. When I ran into this issue myself, it was weeks later, and I actually cared enough to fully investigate it and understand where it was coming from and to see what other factors convened. | |
Membership aside—because it's obvious that Members should get more attention—think of it as a matter of earned trust. Ter has developed a rapport where he knows what I need from a bug report (and feature suggestions even more so) and tries to present them in as useful a format as possible. If we talk about something in chat, he still writes up the details in a bug report because that's what you're supposed to do.
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You don't have to follow the entire form for a bug report. --I don't. Most of it is irrelevant, so I delete it, but the form is a reminder of the homework you need to do to prove that a bug is happening. I've gotten cocky a few times and fired off a bug report too early, and made an ass of myself and wasted Lum's time. Even I need that reminder from time to time.
The important thing is isolating the bug by creating a blank project with no included libraries and the only extra code being for helping demonstrate the problem. This isn't just to prove the bug exists, but also to allow Lummox to confirm that his fix actually worked. Anyway, this has run its course, so I'm gonna give BR the last word and bow out. | |
Imo, you guys are acting very jumpy. Maybe because of the quarentine, I wouldn't know.
Ter, I was just addressing the situation that happened in this topic. We can also discuss other stuff. Everyone has different approaches to bug solving so not every single person goes through the same steps, even if they're considered the basics. If you feel manipulated by these interactions, why accept helping at all? It's not like I didn't ask beforehand if it was allright. But you can feel relieved that it won't be happening anymore, at least on my part. If you think of every interaction you have on the internet, or even just the cries for help, as a transaction, you're going to get frustrated and dissapointed everytime. I think that this approach in itself is inherently wrong. About it landing on your lap in the middle of your work day, when you said that to me, I said that it was alright, and that we could look at it some other time you were available. You were the one who pushed it so that you could address it at that time. So I don't know why this was mentioned at all, other than to push a narrative that isn't true. I wouldn't know about not getting a bug fixed because of inadequately reporting it, because if that were to be true, I wouldn't have my key mentioned 30+ times on the release notes. So even if the report forms on the forums are not optimal, despite majorly only discussing the bugs on other mediums, that was surely somehow still working in getting them fixed. Other than that, NSBR wrote: I do make incomplete bug reports. I can admit to that. What I always complained about was thinking that they were enought because it was discussed in other mediums, as Lummox's post explains well enought. (Btw, I see that it isn't so no need to argue this point anymore.) | |
This bug (or something similar) is still present in 513.1530. Use of any winset command to change `map.icon-size` does not update the map window, and keeps the icon size at 0.
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