ID:278249
 
Does anyone know if there's a BYOND-like(game making) community of Java ?

If such exists, a link would be appreciated.
Java is not suited for gaming unless the market has high-end computers. A simple Pokemon-battle simulator that was made in Java takes up almost 300MB RAM, which is a freaking memory hog when there's very little graphics.

C#/XNA seems better to use, as the games run very smoothly if done right.

Sorry if this was off-topic, but I felt I'd throw my two cents in.
In response to Moonlight Memento
That's not really true. A prominent example would be 'Runescape', which used to run as Java Applet. There are plenty of pitfalls, that's right, but a decent developer should be aware enough to avoid these.
In response to Schnitzelnagler
Runescape was once on Java? Not too surprising, I suppose. The point still remains Java programs requires quite a lot of RAM unless you do some unorthodox that popular Java programs/games seem to forget about.
In response to Moonlight Memento
RuneScape still runs on Java, and no, Java programs do not necessarily require a lot of RAM unless you're not programming correctly in which case no matter what language you use, you're going to use a lot of RAM.

Please, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't post. It's okay, you don't have to comment on everything with something you heard or recalled or whatevered- if you don't know, all you're doing is spreading FUD.
http://www.javagaming.org/ Is one such example.
https://games.dev.java.net/ Is another.

dev.java.net hosts a lot of communities related to Java for a lot of things.

I think one of big things to watch out for is that while people are helpful in these communities, decent knowledge will be assumed and they will expect you to do most of your own legwork on researching things.

This is quite the difference from BYOND, where we are far more accustomed to giving answers, as opposed to pointers and recommendations.
In response to Airjoe
@Airjoe and Moonlight

I'm going to semi-agree with you both. I AM more of a C# guy, so excuse my bias, but Java does require much more RAM if you do not dispose of all memory leaks in your program ASAP.

Any language will use up alot of your RAM, but Java more-so then others. The .NET Framework is optimized for these kinds of things, and Java just hasn't reached that point in it's development yet.
In response to Kirone
What, in all of it's 16+ years of development, they didn't think to look into preventing inadvertent memory leaks, object footprint and allocation?

The problem with Java from a memory point of view lives first and foremost with the developer. The Sun VM does not full GC until it reaches a point where it needs to "grow the garden", and most programmers fail to realise that cyclical referenced objects will not be ref count GCed and cleaned up until a full GC. Secondly the developer usually fails to appreciate changing -Xms, -Xmx, -Xmn and if you're being particularly aggressive on the basic memory footprint, -Xss. Unlike .NET's CLR, there is more of a bias towards server process style allocation in the Sun VM (both Client and Server) for their business customers.

.NET mostly isn't so much optimised for this sort of thing, as it will grant you unmanaged memory that you can implement more bespoke memory management patterns with, and all the fun that comes with that. Memory allocation can be faster in the CLR due to a more obvious stack / heap distinction under the hood, however this really only serves to get Task Manager to provide a more favourable figure as far as allocation itself goes.

The distinction is when the Sun VM gets a page, it takes a long time to throw it out, in no small part because it helps Sun VM operate under heavy page fragmentation conditions (heavy hit servers). CLR avoids requesting pages, and when it does it will happily throw them back out again, which gives favourable figures, incurring cost on the heap use (hopefully offset by less allocations due to stack objects).

I would wager that in both instances it's a matter of developer first and foremost, and both are unwieldy for very aggressive memory allocation and footprint optimisation. Actual out and out language implementation though, they're definitely comparable unless you are making embedded software, in which case why aren't you using an unmanaged language carefully?

But memory use is important for games! I hear you cry. So why are developers looking more to managed languages as a potential basis for the next gen engines? How quickly you allocate it and in what manner is important, out and out footprint isn't too interesting. So they can forgo the delights and bugs of unmanaged code, in favour of less memory related issues (and thus less development time and cost), provided it's fast.

If you wanted to muller Java on memory, it'd be speed of allocation.
In response to Airjoe
Several BitTorrent clients that are Java-based are also very slow and inferior to the non-Java ones (RuneScape also isn't a very good showcase of Java's skills, by the way).

I'll stay quiet now (as I do admit to not being too skilled in this subject, I merely felt like saying my experiences with Java-related programs/games), but I would like to know a few Java programs that are used that aren't total memory hogs.