I'm in the development doldrums

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ID:29913
 
Apr 24 2007, 2:45 am
Keywords: yagsacg
...partly because my YAGSCG Mayhem Intergalactic beta testers aren't giving me any feedback on the latest round of changes, so I don't know what to change. You know who you are, people. >:( And everyone else knows who you are too, since most of you are listed in my guild. Let the public shaming commence!

;-)

Though I'd like to single out Elation for being the most consistent beta tester. Thanks dude.

Combined with a big spike in university work, this is one of the major reasons I haven't touched MI in... well, it feels like ages, but it's actually just under a week. Last thing I did was replace the name on the title screen with a shiny new MI logo. Here's a screenshot, since I haven't checked out the thumbnail attachment feature on this blog yet:



Also note the updated menu buttons. Beta testers saw that a while ago, but I believe this is the first public screenshot of them. Feedback welcome, as always.

Haven't got around to changing all the filenames from yagscg to MayhemIntergalactic or mayhemig or whatever yet. That'll happen next.

Ungh. Crispy needs motivation. Also needs sleep. G'night folks.
Apr 24 2007, 2:55 am
Good night... at 5:55 AM. Wow, that's what I call an all-nighter.
Apr 24 2007, 3:24 am
I think Crispy's time is off. He only just posted that, as far as I'm aware, and it's 10:53 PM in Adelaide.
Apr 24 2007, 3:43 am
Well, I tested it out on WINE again and had some more problems. I haven't had a chance to fully document them yet. I have yet to test the latest beta on Windows, I'll try to get on that soon.
Apr 24 2007, 6:51 am
Do you need any vista testers?
Apr 24 2007, 7:39 am
You rely way too much on feedback from other people. You're the developer: you should *know* if the changes that you are making are good. The testers are there to help smooth out the rough edges look at stuff with fresh eyes to catch anything that you've missed.

You are constantly trying to get other people's opinions, like you're afraid to form your own. I wouldn't be surprised if you took a poll every morning about what you should wear for the day!
Apr 24 2007, 7:49 am
Or Crispy wants to make sure that he has created a user friendly interface and a game that all could enjoy. He is not necessarily his target market, so his opinion, although holding the most weight, does not necessarily bring the best changes.

Crispy has, in fact, done a lot of work without the help of others. Most of his questions are on interface design, something that he cannot do without others. Besides that, he is having us test for bugs.

It's not like he has an entire development team to draw from. He is a one man crew requesting other's opinions so that he will have more than his own to go on. A good developer should be getting others opinions constantly. But it is still his choice weather or not he uses others opinions. Look at the name thing. Despite what some of us have said, he did change the name. I said I liked YAGSACG, and so did many others, but he changed it, because it was his choice to make.

I wouldn't be surprised if you took a poll every morning about what you should wear for the day!

Pfft, that would take too long, I have 10 minutes tops to get ready in the morning, I could only get like one, maybe two, votes in that time. Now if I started the poll the night before...
Apr 24 2007, 8:33 am
Elation is extremely helpful. I haven't had anybody else help me out as much as he has throughout my time here.
Apr 24 2007, 3:13 pm
Jp wrote:
I think Crispy's time is off. He only just posted that, as far as I'm aware, and it's 10:53 PM in Adelaide.

Indeed. Well past my bedtime. :-) I need my sleep, I have an exam tomorrow...


Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
Do you need any vista testers?

I'm told it works fine on Vista, so not in particular, no.


SilkWizard wrote:
You're the developer: you should *know* if the changes that you are making are good.

I do know. They are good. That's not what I want feedback on.


The testers are there to help smooth out the rough edges look at stuff with fresh eyes to catch anything that you've missed.

Which is exactly what I want them for. With an emphasis on finding bugs, but if people are being annoyed by some aspect of the user interface (for example) then I want to know about it.

You can't always form an objective opinion in a vacuum. It's useful to be able to bounce ideas off other people to see what they think, to get a fresh perspective on things. That doesn't mean that you cave in to every demand unquestioningly; of course I'm not doing that. I'm not attempting design-by-committee or anything like that. I've rejected many of the suggestions that I've received.

Simply because I ask a lot of questions, that doesn't mean I always accept whatever answer I'm giving. Only a fool would do that.


You are constantly trying to get other people's opinions, like you're afraid to form your own.

I'm not afraid to form my own opinions. I just want more information before I do so. Unlike some people, I place a lot of value in keeping my opinions balanced.

I am amused by the contrast between what you're saying here ("you consult people too much!"), and what you've been saying about all the changes around BYOND lately ("that's stupid! Nobody ever listens to me!"). The BYOND staff went ahead and did things without extensive consultation, and you criticised them for that. I'm doing a bit of consultation about some of the decisions I have to make (by no means "most" of them), and you're criticising me for that. All of which goes to show that your opinion probably isn't worth me paying much attention to. So I don't.
Apr 25 2007, 7:23 am
I'd definitely be giving you feedback - I haven't had a chance to look since I had talked to you a few days back and you reminded me about a complete uninstall between beta versions. My sister recently got kicked out of school and I've been dealing with issues there, being almost a parent to her.
Apr 25 2007, 7:29 am
Crispy wrote:
The BYOND staff went ahead and did things without extensive consultation, and you criticised them for that. I'm doing a bit of consultation about some of the decisions I have to make (by no means "most" of them), and you're criticising me for that. All of which goes to show that your opinion probably isn't worth me paying much attention to. So I don't.


I criticized the BYOND staff for making stupid design and moderation decisions based upon a limited understanding of their own system. Consultation had nothing to do with it. It's a completely different scenario, because their problems stem from a lack of experience with their target audience, not from failing to take suggestions from them.

You, on the other hand, have no opinion of your own. If your testers told you that your game was crap, then you'd believe them and start from scratch, or just give up altogether. You are *always* asking to hear what other people think. Look how long you agonized over something as stupid as the title of your game... all because some supposed "professionals" told you that the old title wasn't marketable.
Apr 25 2007, 8:11 am
Silk, I think you have a limited idea of what is going on with Crispy's testing. He has done pretty much everything without asking for opinions. What he has asked for is just polish(Does this look OK, is this understandable, does this proc make me look fat...). He created the core game far before he started asking anyone anything, and he isn't asking questions about the game design. I am almost insulted that you would think so little of Crispy, especially while not knowing the situation yourself. This is one clear case of you sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. Hell, if he listened to you and stopped asking so many questions, than he would be taking other people's opinions too much.

I hate to break it to you, but you don't know everything. You don't have control over everything. You are not always right.

And what matter of yours is it if he is asking other peoples opinions? Do you really believe his game will fail because of it? If so, how will this affect you?

That said, until Crispy does something like ban you from his blog, I can't say too much bad about what you are doing, except to stand up for someone who is being pointlessly attacked. And you wonder why some people compare you to trolls(I don't consider what you are doing trolling, but it is rude, and very likely to stir up trouble).
Apr 25 2007, 9:24 am
Danial.Beta wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but you don't know everything. You don't have control over everything. You are not always right.

When you manage to get outside the realm of focussing on a personal problem that you have with me instead of the issue at hand, I'll be more inclined to read what you write. Until then, save yourself the trouble in the future.


And what matter of yours is it if he is asking other peoples opinions? Do you really believe his game will fail because of it? If so, how will this affect you?

He's asking other people's opinions, and he got mine. So how does what you're saying make any sense?


That said, until Crispy does something like ban you from his blog, I can't say too much bad about what you are doing, except to stand up for someone who is being pointlessly attacked. And you wonder why some people compare you to trolls(I don't consider what you are doing trolling, but it is rude, and very likely to stir up trouble).

Stating the honest truth of what I see and believe is a pointless attack? Calling you a moron for making this post would be rude. Saying that you are wrong and way too riled up is the truth.

You don't like my opinion. Deal with it.
Apr 25 2007, 10:03 am
No, you are not stating the truth, you are stating your opinion. I have no real beef with you, except you you start saying stuff like "You, on the other hand, have no opinion of your own. " and calling it fact. I don't mind you sharing your opinion, but when you state it as fact, than I have a problem. If you said 'I think you are asking others opinion too much. I don't bother asking others their opinion and it has worked well for me in the past', I would have nothing bad to say, but when you act like you know what is best for Crispy's game development, than you are kinda stepping on toes. Crispy is one of the few BYONDers who have actually attempted to make it in the game development world, and I think he is doing a damned good job.

The only thing close to any problems I have had in the past with you that have been brought up in these comments was my "I hate to break it to you, ..." line. Everything else was related to what has been said in these comments already.

You insult Crispy and don't expect anyone to say anything?

And what makes you an authority on how much one should ask a game's audience about the game? Because you do seem to be taking an authoritative stance on the subject.
Apr 25 2007, 10:15 am
Danial - again, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. My best guess is that you don't like the style in which I present my opinions. If you're going to keep reading what I write, then you'd better learn to deal with it because I'm not going to change anything. My posts are already wordy enough without having to sugar-coat what I'm saying for the unwashed masses.

I think that Crispy is wrong, and that he is going about the development of his game the wrong way. He has asked for input on the development of his game on this blog repeatedly, and now he's received my take. He didn't like what I had to say, so he turned around and started insulting me with lines like "All of which goes to show that your opinion probably isn't worth me paying much attention to. So I don't.".

Unless you'd like to bring up a point that adds something to the discussion or that I haven't already addressed, then I'm done with this conversation. I *hate* rehashing what I've said over and over to someone who doesn't get it.
Apr 25 2007, 11:06 am (Edited on Apr 25 2007, 11:29 am)
"Though I'd like to single out Elation for being the most consistent beta tester. Thanks dude."

Lesser of two evils or something or whatever... I've been just as lazy as the rest, only just slightly not as much. Saying that, I'll still accept your (and Kunark's) praise. =)

I would've provided more feedback this week but I've been at my dads- sorry!


Also: Everyone, don't worry about Silk. He's just grumpy that no one is interested in his show. I think he should take a leaf out of Crispy's book and rename it "Yet Another Generic Trying-Too-Hard Unfunny Show About Gamers".
Apr 25 2007, 11:27 am
SilkWizard wrote:
Danial - again, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. My best guess is that you don't like the style in which I present my opinions. If you're going to keep reading what I write, then you'd better learn to deal with it because I'm not going to change anything. My posts are already wordy enough without having to sugar-coat what I'm saying for the unwashed masses.

What I don't like is how you presented your opinion as fact. On top of that, you tell Crispy that your opinion is that he should stop taking so many peoples opinions. So if he was to follow you advice, he would have to start with your advice, nullifying the whole thing.

The fact that he is open to suggestion is a great thing. It is not a problem that he likes other's opinions because he still forms his own. As stated before, with the name issue, he changed it even though not all of us believed it was best. He formed in opinion and went with it. Just because he listened when somebody said they thought the name could use some work doesn't me he is incapable of forming his own opinion.

If you would have seen how much he had done without asking our opinion, you would know he only asks on almost trivial things.

Also, thanks for spelling my name right, it is rare that people do.
Apr 25 2007, 3:42 pm
I think I can summarise what Danial is saying:

Jaredoggy love silk long time
Apr 25 2007, 4:54 pm
Elation wrote:
I think I can summarise what Danial is saying:

Jaredoggy love silk long time

I'll thank you very much not to put words into my mouth.
Apr 25 2007, 5:24 pm
Danial.Beta: You try and act like you're a reasonable person with valid points, but then you default to something typical of trolls such as "Jaredoggy love silk long time"? Ugh. When you wonder why I didn't think you were deserving of joining the Guru Venue, remember stuff like that.

Elation: My show is going quite well, thank you! It's actually going into production this month... didn't you get the memo?
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