ID:34331
 
being the unofficial ogre of classified ads (yes, it is most likely i who deleted your posts there), i regularly see stuff like:

"Orginal naruto game in making."
"I am gonna make a 100% original Bleach game..."
"Looking For An Iconner for a 100% Naruto Game"
"...my new naruto GAME 100% oRGINAL..."
"I am making a 100% original Bleach Game..."
"...Planet Dragonball. It is 100% original and if you dont take my word for it come check it out."
"...and its 100% non-rip"
"...my 100% original naruto game..."

NO NO NO NO NO! listen carefully: making a 100% original game based off an existing animation/cartoon/comic/fictional-story IS NOT ORIGINAL!

did you create the characters of Naruto, Goku, Kakashi, Freeza, Sasuke, Raditz, and the rest? i think not. did you create the jutsus and kamehamehas and the dragonballs? nope. did you even come up with punching-bags? hardly. therefore it can't be too original then, can it?

atleast this guy is honest: "...A Rip Of SOC trying to become atleast a 60% (100% is almost completly impossable seeing im useing DOS's source) non rip bleach..."

stop calling your "creation" (and that's stretching it a bit far to begin with) 100% original, when it's clearly not. call it a 'faithful reproduction', or 'my 100% fangame', or 'tribute to my favorite anime' - but don't create the illusion/delusion you are making something 'original' when someone else created the characters, background, and situations. you only make yourself look foolish, and very few will be willing to help you - except maybe if you give them GM.
Yeah but you see, GM is the tipping point, why would you willingly work on a game unless you had the power to completely edit it in game to do what you want? :p
original on byond means the icons and code are not stolen. As it is, Original + Fangame means Not ripped. Its common vocabulary that everybody in the anime guild understands. It in no way is saying that the game itself is not based on anything. Calling something Non-Rip simply doesnt roll off the tongue well.

And again its usually the roleplay environment that is mimicked, not the characters or anything like that. All naruto games are, are make your own character and mix and match skills from the show (largely big fireballs, tidalwaves etc, so not really that original in and of itself). I donno i think its silly that so many people make such a big deal out of calling a fangame, which is in the Anime guild original.

(original also implies that as far as gameplay concepts go, the game has its own unique style, the stats are different, the combat system is different etc. Original applies to lots of things, usually on byond since its dominated by fan products you can assume they are talking about the game's icons/code/mechanics)
basically this argument is the silliest thing and I hear it way too much.

yeah, a game based on something can be original. the ideas may not be original, but the implementation of said ideas can be original.

granted, that's probably not what that kid meant, but yeah, a game can be original.
Agreed, Its all about context. The context that original is being used in in these situations is refering to the byond game itselfs components. Not the theme of the game, as 94% of byond plays fangames and using Dragonball or naruto or bleach in the title obviously shows they give credit to those Anime and implies that the game is using an unoriginal theme.

And theres no shame in making a fan game, you dont get any advantages or shortcuts if you make the graphics and code and mapping yourself, what exactly makes it easier to make a naruto game than an RPG? instead of ninjas using great fireball you have Wizards casting Flame. Dont act like because we base theme, roleplay and skills around a show that it does anything to make it easier on us. If you dont like naruto thats fine, but people have been wanting to play an online naruto roleplaying game, thats why something silly like 75% of byond players are playing a naruto game right now.
Claiming to be original and then claiming to be 100% original are two different things, so I can see where this crazy German guy is going.

Taking things literally on BYOND however, is also a silly thing to do. I understand what these guys mean when they say "100% original", even though the majority of the time they are still lying.
Anybody claiming 100% original DBZ/Naruto/whatever is probably 100% unoriginal. Why people are jumping to defend this hypothetical "original" fangame that (AFAIK) doesn't actually exist (while lots of crappy derivative one do) is beyond me.

Masterdan: If you are really so thick that you cannot see the difference between a hacky fangame and something like Morrowind/Diablo/Final Fantasy/etc. (or Your Money or Your Life), then you are full of fail.
Masterdan wrote:
Stuff about his "My icons got stolen" plea he's been pulling for the last three months, plus his own statistics interpretation presented as "facts".

Okay, of course, the above might be considered trolling because it's sensitive stuff, but I'll say my piece nevertheness.

This post wasn't about that 1000-year-old argument you always try to bring out. It's about one's perception of what an original game is, and the presentation of this mouse's opinion on whether it is possible to have a truly original CONCEPT with anime games.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen one single original concept with anime games thus far. Of course, the same could be said about my work, but on the other hand, I never claimed my game was 100% original, unlike a lot of Anime game developpers.

So... My sole question is: why did you have to pull the spotlight to yourself and your plea?
Masterdan wrote:
what exactly makes it easier to make a naruto game than an RPG?

If you made an RPG, you would have to define every part of your world yourself. If you make a Naruto game, you get the lax of someone else already having defined everything in the world that you develop.

If you dont like naruto thats fine, but people have been wanting to play an online naruto roleplaying game, thats why something silly like 75% of byond players are playing a naruto game right now.

Or, you know, the fact that 99% of BYOND games are falling into the DragonBall/Naruto universe, so it's only natural that that's where the majority resides. If there were more original RPGs and MMORPGs and puzzle games and such, I'm willing to bet that more players would play them. Can't give a few thousand people 5 choices in an anime-less genre and expect them to like one of the games, then say that because none of the 5 games piqued any interest, the genres are a bust.
Masterdan wrote:
Calling something Non-Rip simply doesnt roll off the tongue well.

We are not talking, we are typing. Also, you said creating a naruto game is the same difficulty as creating a general RPG. Well, first of all, it definitely is not as hard. Yes, I can understand that perhaps the icons can be the same difficulty (although even there you at least have an idea of what the characters should look like), but the coding can definitely be a lot more complex in a good RPG. A ninja's fireball maybe the same as a wizards Flame, but it could also be completely different in that sense. As well, an RPG can have a more complete world, more enemies, and a larger scale of just about everything in which the owner has to come up with himself, whereas in a Naruto game the owner can easily be like "Hey, they have this in the show, so I should probably put that in."

The difference really is the amount of creativity in the games.
if you take it in your concept, might as well say everything in the world is fake.

man people, be real, everything in this world has been done multiple times. books you have read have been inspired by other books. so on and so forth.

but if you take it in a byond context, basically means that the graphics and gameplay isnt an exact clone of another game on byond.
we all know what they mean by original, some people are just bothered by it.
Killerdragon wrote:
Masterdan wrote:
Calling something Non-Rip simply doesnt roll off the tongue well.

We are not talking, we are typing. Also, you said creating a naruto game is the same difficulty as creating a general RPG. Well, first of all, it definitely is not as hard. Yes, I can understand that perhaps the icons can be the same difficulty (although even there you at least have an idea of what the characters should look like), but the coding can definitely be a lot more complex in a good RPG. A ninja's fireball maybe the same as a wizards Flame, but it could also be completely different in that sense. As well, an RPG can have a more complete world, more enemies, and a larger scale of just about everything in which the owner has to come up with himself, whereas in a Naruto game the owner can easily be like "Hey, they have this in the show, so I should probably put that in."

The difference really is the amount of creativity in the games.

Your going on steriotypes though, theres lots of BAD fan games out. However my project i havnt cut the same corners, i treat this like a full fledged game and simply make the skills / villages look the same, i dont get any help by stealing any concepts, if anything having to make the villages look "right" has been one of the biggest challenges.

What i dont understand is why you guys think bashing any game based on an anime as a whole, instead of bashing stolen/ripped games, also the reason theres no people in the other guilds? because this "Good RPG" you speak of hasnt been done yet, so get going! i would love to play a decent non-fan byond game.
The Naked Ninja wrote:
...I can see where this crazy German guy is going.


except that i'm American/Canadian, and live in Denmark. (i've been here for six months now).
Wah wah wah anime wah wah wah wah... how many times have we rehashed this tired old subject?
It's not about anime. It's about redefining a word and who has the right to do so. It's about recognizing the audience when making an advertisement. It's about a subgroup using slang in a general forum and having the nerve to be upset when called on it. It's about recognizing that the slang users are indeed a subgroup in comparison to speakers of the English language.
Ummm, have you tried Your Money or Your Life or DarkeDungeon? Non decent fangames abound- try any of the very good games by Deadron, Leftley, Zilal, etc.? To name a few:
Last Robot Standing
Yet Another Generic Space Age Game
Castle
Sheep
SheepII
In the Hood
Proelium
Champions of Vargacet
Ruin
ShapeShifter
DragonSnot
etc....
There are a bunch of good ORIGINAL games on BYOND that don't need to use the term to denote merely "non-rip" (which is a very sad standard). There a a few decent fangames, too. DWO comes to mind. I don't know if any DBZ or Naruto games that do, but that may change, who knows? I am not a big fan of those properties anyway and the commercial games tend to suck pretty bad, so I am not holding my breath. OTOH, I am not a fan of the Kingdom Hearts franchise, either, but that was a hell of a game!

Masterdan wrote:
because this "Good RPG" you speak of hasnt been done yet, so get going! i would love to play a decent non-fan byond game.

Jmurph wrote:
To name a few:
Last Robot Standing
Yet Another Generic Space Age Game
Castle
Sheep
SheepII
In the Hood
Proelium
Champions of Vargacet
Ruin
ShapeShifter
DragonSnot

The ones in bold are actually based on other games. I'm pretty sure YAGSACG and Sheep I+II+III are also based on existing games (although in Sheep's case I think it's merely inspired by Lemmings). You also forgot Incursion which is another excellent BYOND game that happens to be based on another game.
In The Hood is loosely based on Little Red Riding Hood. I think Proelium was inspired by another game but not in any direct way.
That said, none of those games claim otherwise and they're all very good games. Especially the DDT games. Man I wish those guys could make BYOND games full time.


I don't know if any DBZ or Naruto games that do

Dragonball actually had a fair few good games on BYOND. Even after ripping became a problem we had good ones popping up. However the DBZ craze is gone now leaving pretty much only the people who make DBZ games making them because it's the easiest to acquire icons/code/etc for.
Masterdan's Naturo game is very good (and not just 'good for a fangame'). If you sit down and play it you'll probably add it to your list of good games.


@Hiead:
If you made an RPG, you would have to define every part of your world yourself.

And if you base it on a TV show you've got to balance out all the stupid stuff the TV show did. Try making a DBZ game where any race other than Saiyan is worth playing as.
One of the main plot devices on the show is 'transform and boost your power level to an unimaginable level'. At almost any given time one person is the most powerful being in existence by a lot.
That presents some very, very difficult decisions to the game designer. You find yourself constantly stuck in situations where you have to add something, but there's just no way to have it stay true to the show without throwing off the rest of your game.
DarkView wrote:
I'm pretty sure YAGSACG [is] also based on [an] existing game

Aye. Actually the only game in my profile that could really be called original is YMOYL. The others are based on other games to varying degrees; some are just heavily inspired (Thieves is inspired by the Thief series but plays nothing like it), others are direct clones (Traffic Jam, The Quest for the Code), and others are somewhere in between (Fishbert's gameplay is a direct clone of Q-Bert, but the Fishbert character is original).

And you know what? It doesn't matter. Nobody has ever complained. None of them infringe on anyone else's copyrights or other IP, so I'm in the clear.

(It did turn out that Yahtzee is a registered trademark, though I didn't know that at the time I made it - we always used our own dice and bits of scribble paper rather than a bought set. I just thought that's what poker-with-dice was called.)
I saw this on the Naruto Ultimate Revised hub and had to post it here...

Please Don't Rip. It discourages
ORIGINAL Game Owners.

Rick - I'm going to recode, remap, returf and re-icon Naruto Ultimated Revised with my Staff, and this game will definitely become original.

Funny Right???

I liked what someone said earlier about how everything is based on previous games and books and such etc. This is true, therefore nothing could ever be 100% original, except something that God created (if he exists, if not, it'd have to be something from the beginning of time).

Many people tend to take their life experiences when producing something creative, and as such, even that wouldn't be original.

To be fair, going on your argument, nothing could ever be 100% original, but that entirely depends on your own personal definition of the term.